Meworry?

For me, it is what I'm being paid right now as a left seater. I would not have taken the job (I came out of the military) at JB if the upgrade had been more than 3 years away (which means I would not be a pilot, since Cargo was not for me). I have made more in three years here than I could have anywhere else. I do not think I would take a job at JB if I were looking today, at my age. However, I still think JB is a good choice for the under 40 crowd, though SWA looks better, for now. And I have heard that a higher percentage of applicants are turning us down now, and company surveys show decreased satisfaction for pay and benefits.

Calm down, the pendelum swings back and forth.

bluebrother

Let me answer in a way YOU'll understand: the lowest pay scale I’m willing to accept will depend on how low the bankrupt ALPA legacy carrier pilots keep taking it up the a** while bending over when being forced to accept their new pay rates!!

If the rates are too low in which my wife cannot stay at home and I cannot save for my retirement and I cannot save for my kids college education and cannot take my family on vacation which im able to do now (or in the near future), then I will get out of “flying jets”. I control my destiny.

I hope your able to understand that…………

Orca

So BueBro...

You think it is the ALPA team is taking the pay down??!! I do not think JB is making money this year... Hmmm? Where will they look next.... Just so YOU understand....You and Swapa started undercutting ALPA pay rates with or without the current slide! I will see You at the bottom! Who do you think started the pay rates.... Management? Wake up! You think it is unreasonable to have good pay and a retirement, then that is what you shall have.... Cheers dudes!

ps I am not unhappy... boo hoo hoo
just disapointed the way goobers think....

dckozak

Since you guys at JB are setting the standard for "taking it up the a**" I guess it will depend how low little you guy's are willing to go. We've seen the great hourly rates you guy's negotiated for the EMB-190, oh hey, you guy's don't negotiate, you take the "fair and equitable" pay your employer has decided your worth. Your great retirement plan, of I forgot, you don't have one, just a 3% match. Oh the ALPA guy's are hosing you,... boo hoo. But that's all right you can work your n**'s off doing overtime so your wife doesn't have to work. Give me a break, until you sit down with your management and DO SOMETHING TO IMPROVE YOUR PAY, you can't blame anyone, certainly not a union pilot for sending compensation down the sh**er.
You want to see where the problem is in this business, look in the mirror

banger

I was/am an ALPA member and this job is so much better than when I was a "legacy/APLA" pilot. Don't need your advice.

SitBackRelax

Well this certainly has gotten spirited. I don't like the ugliness but it sounds like people are saying what they feel needs said.

There's a lot of talk of "justifying." Frankly I've got absolutely nothing to justify. I love my job, I'm happy with my compensation, and I believe in what we're doing. I've said before that I'm making twice as much now than I was making before for a fraction of the difficulty / stress / risk. I like the atmostphere of mutual respect and trust where I am, and I like positive attitudes. Someone comes along and accuses me of "bringing down the industry," "lowering the bar," destroying America, whatever, then I'll sit down and tell that person, if I sense that they really want to hear and aren't just venting, why I believe it's far more complex than one pilot group either blindly or maliciously screwing over everyone else. That I came into this industry with open eyes, fully aware of the directions it had the potential to go. It boggles the mind that this would need explaining to an educated adult, but apparently it does because scapegoats are an easier out.

But let's at least be honest. If I hear "the bar" one more time, I'm going to puke -- can we just substitue "my salary" for "the bar" and dispense with the code words? "I wish you JB guys luck at raising my salary." "Thanks to you guys for lowering my salary." Don't make it about altruism, brotherhood, God, and country, it's about your pay. Your pay. So please call it what it is. How about this, anyone who's terribly concerned about the plight of our fellow pilots -- let's get together and fight for raising the salaries of the military pilots who are making far less than you and I while getting shot at half-way around the globe and running a Maintenance / Operations department in the meantime? We're not exactly poor here. And then a fellow pilot says that he's making "the big bucks" already but is furious at "inconsequential" JetBlue because its existence is hampering negotiations to score even more money??

We're pathetic?? Pathetic is basing your entire life on what you're paid. Pathetic is bitterly pining for "the old days." Pathetic is feeling so out of control of your own destiny that you need someone to blame for it. Pathetic is seeing a group of folks who are happy with their job and concluding that they're either deluded, spineless, ignorant, or all three.

No, I've got nothing to justify. I'm going to keep going to work and enjoying myself. If I begin to feel that I'm being compensated unfairly then I'll fight for what I consider to be fair. And if I find this ineffective or I find myself becoming unhappy with what I'm doing, then I'll look inwards, I'll say to myself "I'm a smart guy, how in the world did I not see that coming?" and I'll go do something else.

CALPilotToo

Theres always someone out there that believes pilots should make today what they made 25 years ago without an increase to todays dollars. Glad you are happy just barely making a six figure income with the responsibility you are trusted with.

dckozak

I guess I'm confused Are you or are you not an ALPA member
If your at JB and your "paying dues", what for?? If it sounds like I'm coming down hard it is only to make the point, "If you don't have the right/choose not to have the right, to bargain" you get what you get, not what you negotiate. And don't give me this crap about "bring down the house" by just being union, you guys will decide your contract, its terms and what you think your worth, not some lawyer in DC. The company dribble you're likely to hear when and if you vote on unionisation is pure BS. YOU decide your fate, YOU decide your work rules (if any), YOU decide what YOUR worth. Not us, or some payed mouthpiece from Washington, You. The power is and always will be in your hands, if you chose so.
If you think your present salary is fair considering the profitability of your company, so be it, put it in a contract. You wouldn't buy a house without negotiating the price, or probably a car, why would you do any less with your career. Good luck

JayDub

Kozak,

First and foremost go to this link and look to see what "profit" you are talking about.http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor...sp?Symbol=JBLU You'll see tough times are hitting everyone.

Secondly, please, please find someone from CCAir (now at Mesa most probably). They negotiated a TA and the MEC chairman went to DC to present it to D.W (in 2001 I believe). D.W. met him at the door, took the paper out of his hands and went directly to the trash can and put it in there. CCair was subsequently shut down and all pilots were allowed to merge into Mesa, after quite a few months of uncertainty.

Trans Sates Airlines had to ask their Washington appointed "advisors" to leave the room at one point during their negotiations in 2000. You can ask any of those reps. exactly why; a lot of them are here at JB now.

As far as I can tell, your biggest beef with JetBlue is based on a lot of misconceptions. You think we are going to be profitable for this year (we are not expected to be as you can tell), you think we are compensated in stock that we can not cash in (which is totally false), you think we get less time off then you (again, total B.S.), but a lot of other half-truths you spout off which have time and again been pointed out to be false, but you just plow right ahead any how.

Look at the (not-so) warm reception we get on these message boards. Do you think ALPA would welcome us with cake and punch like CAL and FedEx or would they treat us more like TSA, MESA, Comair, etc.? A whole lot of co-workers of mine worked for places where they weren't treated like you are by the folks in Herndon, and expect more of the same in the future.

To many of us at JetBlue, they way we are referred to on these message boards is a clear indication of how we will be treated if we ever joined that group based in Herndon. I am in no way in a position to speak for my pilot group, but I truly believe that if we ever choose to be represented, we will choose an in-house union. For a clear example why, look at your inevitable response. You will miss my point, and just fire the party line and not look into what I need to help me with my job. Instead, you’ll continue to spout off what you need to get a bigger pay check. Until the issue of representation turns to what benefits our pilot group can expect instead of what we need to do for you, don't expect us to jump on your band wagon any time soon.

Respectfully,

JayDub

Orca

I think ALPA would love you guys to get onboard! I really have not seen anyone putting down the pilots at JB.... I think it is the slide in the industry that people resent. Right now JB is the target... Soon you'll be off the hook has VA comes online! Then you guys/gals can join in and stomp on them on this forum! Should be fun!

Good luck to us all!