'JetBlue Factor' Expands Your Weekend Reach
12-18-2005, 08:44 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757/767 Capt
Posts: 642
BlueBrother,
You can spout all day about how the legacy carriers have screwed up, but until you guys start showing up in all the corners of the globe and all 50 states don't compare yourselves to a legacy.....its like a single A minor league baseball player making fun of a major leaguer who only hit .250 in the big leagues! Yeah you play the same game, but your not in the same league at all.
You can spout all day about how the legacy carriers have screwed up, but until you guys start showing up in all the corners of the globe and all 50 states don't compare yourselves to a legacy.....its like a single A minor league baseball player making fun of a major leaguer who only hit .250 in the big leagues! Yeah you play the same game, but your not in the same league at all.
12-19-2005, 05:04 AM
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by Vito
BlueBrother,
You can spout all day about how the legacy carriers have screwed up, but until you guys start showing up in all the corners of the globe and all 50 states don't compare yourselves to a legacy.....its like a single A minor league baseball player making fun of a major leaguer who only hit .250 in the big leagues! Yeah you play the same game, but your not in the same league at all.
You can spout all day about how the legacy carriers have screwed up, but until you guys start showing up in all the corners of the globe and all 50 states don't compare yourselves to a legacy.....its like a single A minor league baseball player making fun of a major leaguer who only hit .250 in the big leagues! Yeah you play the same game, but your not in the same league at all.
as far as "not being in the same league" i guess i was seeing things when an airplane painting with a "green sperm" was flying the same routes (or league)
as i was. also, dont forget THEY WERE ALWAYS CHARGING LESS than jetblue.
its seems your in denial about what the ALPA pilots are doing to save their own skin regarding payrates and benefits. remember, jetblue doesnt fly out of chicago or detroit, or atlanta.
Last edited by bluebrother; 12-19-2005 at 05:09 AM.
12-19-2005, 05:23 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 323
Originally Posted by Vito
BlueBrother,
You can spout all day about how the legacy carriers have screwed up, but until you guys start showing up in all the corners of the globe and all 50 states don't compare yourselves to a legacy.....its like a single A minor league baseball player making fun of a major leaguer who only hit .250 in the big leagues! Yeah you play the same game, but your not in the same league at all.
You can spout all day about how the legacy carriers have screwed up, but until you guys start showing up in all the corners of the globe and all 50 states don't compare yourselves to a legacy.....its like a single A minor league baseball player making fun of a major leaguer who only hit .250 in the big leagues! Yeah you play the same game, but your not in the same league at all.
12-19-2005, 05:25 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757/767 Capt
Posts: 642
I've probably gotten off on the wrong foot here. Listen, I have alot of good friends who are excellent pilots flying for JB..I hope you guys are sucessful and work real hard to "raise the bar" I know alot of guys were furloughed and JB was the only game in town..I probably would have done the same thing. The problem I have with JB is mostly with the smug attitude and the general perception that JB is profitable because Neelman is smarter/better/etc etc, when in reality you guys just work way cheaper than the legacies, and you do "cherry pick" only the profitable routes. Nothing wrong with "cherry pickers" it makes good business sence, but the net result of the "Jet Blue Effect" (along with other LCC's) is the erosion of pilot pay across the board. Many JB guys seem to possess an underlying enjoyment at watching a 25 year Delta Captain take pay cut after pay cut. ( btw I don't group Southwest with you guys because they are paid at a high level.)...I know JB is young and hopefully You guys will enjoy some pay raises in the future, but the foundation has been laid by guys like Neelman that if you want to be sucessful, start fresh every couple of years, no unions, pay sub-scale wages and rake the cash in. It will be interesting to see what the "Virgin Effect" will be on the airline industry here in the states. I do wish you guys well, just don't preach or brag about any "Jet Blue Effect" because up to this point the only effect JB has had, has been to erode pilot pay and workrules.
Have a happy holiday,
Vito
Have a happy holiday,
Vito
12-19-2005, 05:33 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757/767 Capt
Posts: 642
Blue dude,
Sorry I read your post after I posted my last one. I don't have to worry, I'm doing well flying boxes around the world....make alot more than most and am lucky to be where I am. I just see all the heartache, and carnage occuring in the pax industry and it breaks my heart. I'm an AF reservist and I listen everyday to my buds who are being screwed from all directions...these guys are great pilots who have served their country and did well enough to be hired by one of the great legacy carriers, and due to circumstances beyond most of their control they're fu#*ed! I was happy when United signed that great contract back in 2000! a rising tide lifts all boats!! then these LCC's show up and the ships are taking on lots of water and are sinking fast
Sorry I read your post after I posted my last one. I don't have to worry, I'm doing well flying boxes around the world....make alot more than most and am lucky to be where I am. I just see all the heartache, and carnage occuring in the pax industry and it breaks my heart. I'm an AF reservist and I listen everyday to my buds who are being screwed from all directions...these guys are great pilots who have served their country and did well enough to be hired by one of the great legacy carriers, and due to circumstances beyond most of their control they're fu#*ed! I was happy when United signed that great contract back in 2000! a rising tide lifts all boats!! then these LCC's show up and the ships are taking on lots of water and are sinking fast
12-19-2005, 06:05 AM
#46
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by Vito
I've probably gotten off on the wrong foot here. Listen, I have alot of good friends who are excellent pilots flying for JB..I hope you guys are sucessful and work real hard to "raise the bar" I know alot of guys were furloughed and JB was the only game in town..I probably would have done the same thing. The problem I have with JB is mostly with the smug attitude and the general perception that JB is profitable because Neelman is smarter/better/etc etc, when in reality you guys just work way cheaper than the legacies, and you do "cherry pick" only the profitable routes. Nothing wrong with "cherry pickers" it makes good business sence, but the net result of the "Jet Blue Effect" (along with other LCC's) is the erosion of pilot pay across the board. Many JB guys seem to possess an underlying enjoyment at watching a 25 year Delta Captain take pay cut after pay cut. ( btw I don't group Southwest with you guys because they are paid at a high level.)...I know JB is young and hopefully You guys will enjoy some pay raises in the future, but the foundation has been laid by guys like Neelman that if you want to be sucessful, start fresh every couple of years, no unions, pay sub-scale wages and rake the cash in. It will be interesting to see what the "Virgin Effect" will be on the airline industry here in the states. I do wish you guys well, just don't preach or brag about any "Jet Blue Effect" because up to this point the only effect JB has had, has been to erode pilot pay and workrules.
Have a happy holiday,
Vito
Have a happy holiday,
Vito
neeleman has taken a very simple approach to his business plan. fly profitable routes (not just for market share). treat passengers like customers. and treat employees correctly and fairly. this philosophy is so simple. the truth of the matter is; jetblue is only so good because everyone else is bad. in a few years this is going to change because management and unions will be FORCED to follow this philosophy or they will be chapter 7. (and jetblue will be faced with a new reality. )
im sorry you do not like the 190 payscale. i wish it were more. however, from a business standpoint IN TODAYS INDUSTRY it make's perfect sense. you do not raise pilot cost per seat mile just for the sake of it. in todays airline enviroment, its not about industry leading pay, its about surviving the high cost of FUEL and low ticket prices
im saddened and mad at what has happened to the legacy pilots. especially those who are and have recently retired. but the problems that caused this demise were there long before jetblue came into existence.
12-19-2005, 06:32 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 323
Originally Posted by Vito
I was happy when United signed that great contract back in 2000! a rising tide lifts all boats!! then these LCC's show up and the ships are taking on lots of water and are sinking fast
12-19-2005, 03:20 PM
#48
done, gone skiing
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Rocking chair
Posts: 1,601
Originally Posted by bluebrother
nobody at jetblue "enjoys" what's happening at the legacy carriers. however, do not blame neeleman or the pilots for eroding pilot pay and benefits. you should educate yourself on the current payscales comparing jetblue with other A-320 Legacy carriers. please explain why your do not "knock" the legacy union pilots for allowing themselves to make less than jetblue pilots.
neeleman has taken a very simple approach to his business plan. fly profitable routes (not just for market share). treat passengers like customers. and treat employees correctly and fairly. this philosophy is so simple. the truth of the matter is; jetblue is only so good because everyone else is bad. in a few years this is going to change because management and unions will be FORCED to follow this philosophy or they will be chapter 7. (and jetblue will be faced with a new reality. )
im sorry you do not like the 190 payscale. i wish it were more. however, from a business standpoint IN TODAYS INDUSTRY it make's perfect sense. you do not raise pilot cost per seat mile just for the sake of it. in todays airline enviroment, its not about industry leading pay, its about surviving the high cost of FUEL and low ticket prices
im saddened and mad at what has happened to the legacy pilots. especially those who are and have recently retired. but the problems that caused this demise were there long before jetblue came into existence.
neeleman has taken a very simple approach to his business plan. fly profitable routes (not just for market share). treat passengers like customers. and treat employees correctly and fairly. this philosophy is so simple. the truth of the matter is; jetblue is only so good because everyone else is bad. in a few years this is going to change because management and unions will be FORCED to follow this philosophy or they will be chapter 7. (and jetblue will be faced with a new reality. )
im sorry you do not like the 190 payscale. i wish it were more. however, from a business standpoint IN TODAYS INDUSTRY it make's perfect sense. you do not raise pilot cost per seat mile just for the sake of it. in todays airline enviroment, its not about industry leading pay, its about surviving the high cost of FUEL and low ticket prices
im saddened and mad at what has happened to the legacy pilots. especially those who are and have recently retired. but the problems that caused this demise were there long before jetblue came into existence.
12-19-2005, 07:24 PM
#49
Guest
Posts: n/a
[QUOTE=Blue Dude]
Not all of us. The airlines would be far smaller and probably at least 75% of pilot jobs would go away permanently. Sure, the industry is deregulated and wages have fallen, but there are many more jobs now than there were, too.
I never said that.....
Originally Posted by Meworry?
Not all of us. The airlines would be far smaller and probably at least 75% of pilot jobs would go away permanently. Sure, the industry is deregulated and wages have fallen, but there are many more jobs now than there were, too.
I never said that.....
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