UGBSM

Hey,

You stole that from Delta. Don't you mean " Dumb goes around "?

B6Guy

Transcon turns are a piece of cake. JFK-LAS-JFK with a 0700 show and a 1930 check out with 10:30 block is far easier to do than the current flight schedule.

The current transcon flights have for example: a 0700 show, arrive at LAS at 1030 local. You go to your hotel room for a 10-11 hour 'rest'. Ever try sleeping in a LAS hotel with all the traffic in the hallway?? Kids, drunks, winners and loosers talking at 95 decibels?? Good luck getting any rest. Then you get up at 21-2200 local [0000 to 0200 EST] and fly all night back to JFK, with poor rest if any, in the night during your normal sleep times. NOT very safe, but happens all the time since it is FAA legal. [FAA stupid IMO]

If the exemption [it is an exemption, not a FAA rule change] gets submited and goes through it will be for daytime or normal awake time periods only. No transcon red-eyes.

I also believe that if the trip goes into open time, that if it is assigned to a reservist, [not voluntarily picked up by a lineholder] then it may have to be heavy crewed, since only a person requesting this type of flight should have to fly one. I also believe that the FAA. if they approve the exemption. will require a heavy crew if the weather is below certain minimums on the second leg. This is pure guess work. The request for the exemption has not been filed with the FAA yet. [and may never be filed]

The research is done, the legal but unsafe flights with the day sleeps had very poor performance by the testing pilots, and the transcon turns had very good performance. I know since I was one of the pilots flying the flights and doing the alertness-testing and research.

I agree that some airlines would attempt to make some real nightmare schedules if they could. But if this exemption is filed and approved [unforturantely unlikely] then I believe it will have many stipulations attached to it to provide far more safety than the current rest rules provide.

ICAO rules would allow a JFK-LAS-JFK, and nobody is saying that ICAO rules are unsafe., I'm hopefull for this exemption, but I'm not holding my breath for it either.

B6guy

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Packer Backer

So why not just carry a third crewmember and heavy crew all flights? No exemption, just do it. Instead, you guys want to screw with every other pilots schedule in the country.

B6Guy

If you add an extra crewmember it defeats the purpose: productivity and cost. If you believe this will 'screw with every other pilot's schedule' then use your union to prevent or block YOUR company from filing for the exemption.

ICAO rules are not 'screwing with every other pilot's schedule' and they function just fine. So what is your fear? Don't trust your company?? If ICAO-like rules work elsewhere why not here in the states??

IF this happens the trips will go super senior, and I'll never see any of them except by luck in open time.. But it is much safer than the current rules and is very productive, it will add like five more days off per month for a senior bidder. I can only dream.

B6Guy

Packer Backer

Some of you "blue nuts" are about the most short sighted people I have ever seen. You seem to think that the things you do and the wages you accept don't affect anybody but yourselves. Take a look around the industry. Every management is trying to drive down the wages and increase the working productivity at every airline. And they are using the wages and productivity of other carriers as examples to convince a judge to throw out their contracts. But yet the "blue nuts" still hold on to the thought that it is up to us to stop this from happening at our company. I'm sure that you would just love it if we made this a strike issue and shut our company down. Then you could move in and take our routes. With "brothers" like you, who needs enemies.

bluechunks

Be careful what you wish for. There are some real 'easter-eggs' in the current proposed EU FTL's. Check out the proposal here:

http://www.eurocockpit.be/media/FTL_...-05-1108-F.pdf

Among other items, note that the yearly limit is 900 hours of block time, which would be a pay-cut for our senior credit wh***s.

For those without calculators, 900/12=75 hours/mo.!!

Hmmm...maybe we should adopt the EU rules.

B6Guy

Since you want to single out 'Blue nuts' I will invite you to think about the other [in your terms] 'nuts'

'Sprit nuts'
'Airtran nuts'
'SWA nuts' [30 years as a LCC, only now are they well paid.]

All the above companies have high productivity and lower than legacy pay rates. SWA has only recently emerged as a high paying company. But most legacy pilots would never work as hard as a SWA pilot does. If SWA didn't have their fuel hedges, I suspect that they would have had some wage negotiations by now. Probably initiated by the pilots since they have a good relationship with management.

Maybe these 'nuts' should also be included:
'ATA nuts'
'Midwest express nuts'
'National nuts'
'EOS nuts'

I can't keep up, too many 'nuts'

The real problem is revenue. The legacies have tried to undercharge for their seats in the belief that they could drive other companies out of business. Well it didn't work for Delta, it drove them into backruptcy. NWA charges low fares where they compete with Spirit and Comair, but charge high fares where there is no competion. Everybodies planes are full, but the fares are still below cost, it doesn't make sense. Everybody needs to raise fares.

If the bankruptcy judges would tell Delta and NWA that they could no longer charge under their cost for seats, and to add at least a $5-10 profit per ticket/seat, then 'instantly' the industry would be saved.

If you look, JetBlue often is more expensive than other airlines, so we are not driving down the industry with low costs. The other airlines are trying to use us and other Low-cost airlines as an excuse to break their union contracts. The problem is predatory management.

I'm sure the above is VERY simplistic, but it seems to fit with the current situation. At least from my point of view.

I appologize to any of the above listed 'nuts' if they take offense at the label.

B6Guy

Frank Rizzo

No, do I not trust my company (AirTran). If they find a way to save a dime they'll do it, regardless of what the union says. The only thing we have going for us is a 12hr max scheduled/rescheduled duty day, which I'm pretty sure would prevent this bad idea from taking hold here.

Frank Rizzo

Your problem is obviously with the hotel accommodations, not the FAR's. Do you have a hotel chairman? Get the crew into a suitable hotel or call fatigued for the return leg, simple.

B6Guy

Even more simple would be to not leave the airport, just go get a sandwich, program the FMS and fly back to JFK, the duty day is around 12-13 hours.

The problem is not the hotel, it is trying to sleep during the time when your mind and body wants to be awake. It takes very little to awaken and a lot to get back to sleep. Yes we have a hotel committee. Our hotel is very good, but it can't turn day to night.

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