FNG,
Can you post your numbers for years 1-12? I understand what you are saying but I don't quite know how to move the numbers in regards to cost of living and future inflation.

I know the D's really love the base/premium schedule as it stands. Being in their shoes I can see them shaking their heads if the base pay is set out of range and we still expected premium pay. However, maybe a different pay schedule might work also. If we don't want the highest straight pay we can possibly bargain for then we will have to back off that number a bit in order to keep the premium pay. Perhaps if we get a higher base pay the 1.5 could become 1.4 or 1.3 in order to justify the higher base wage.

I would like to actually create a pay chart that we can submit to management rather than just waiting for what they say or not say at all. They can always say NO but at least they know what we are thinking. Rumor had it that there was a raise($20) to come a while ago....well it never happened and it just remains a rumor. If we could cement a proposal and it was rejected or accepted at least it wouldn't be one of those rumors anymore.

The above simple blended rates at 85 and 95 are effectively what they are willing to pay now....that is why I posted those rates. Do we look at the NorthWest rates- who knows.....as posted earlier lets look at it based off of our earnings to justify our raise. Heck maybe looking at another carrier could actually limit and hurt us as justification for a raise because our own balance sheet is so much stronger.

 

Any presentation of this idea would require some data that might actually be easy to compile.
The simple part can be done without any help from the company. A spreadsheet based on the bid awards in each month (we have) pilot by pilot with columns showing what each person was paid at our current premium pay system - followed by columns based on 80/81//82/83/84/85/86/87/88/89/90 as the determining blended/straight rate.
Then each column could be totaled to see where the cost begins to rise.
The hard part would be trying to get the actual credit hours paid over line values and you may never get this number on a pilot by pilot basis.
They may be willing to disclose a total number or even a number that is broken down by the pay rate that was paid for each credit hour. This would be helpful in determining the real pay out and give us a better cost comparison.
If we get good data then people can decide for themselves what might be the best option going forward.
I agree that if this option became a serious possibility, then every effort should be made to insure that 99% of pilots (discounting the extraordinary payouts) do not experience any decrease in pay. The huge outliers might blow the curve. It may be that a cutover could be delayed for a year or so to coincide with a pay raise as suggested by other posters.
Someone I flew with the other day made an interesting observation. He said, that none of us has more than 5 years on this property and yet it seems like we have a seniority list that spans 20 years flying everything from small jets to wide bodies. That's an exaggeration but we do have a unique situation and it's hurting morale.
Maybe we could help people by paying a higher guarantee to someone who tried but failed to secure premium pay (not very realistic I know) and to allow reserves to add one or two reserve days to their schedule during the bid in return for an addition 5 hours each day.
Nobody should be surprised or angry at pilots who come down on different sides of this issue. I understand both sides but it will take some sort of data distribution followed by a 100% participation survey to really see what pilots want.

 

Well, here is what straight pay looks like when you take Southwest less 10%.

Capt A320

12th year $164
11 $162
10 $160
9 $158
8 $157
7 $155
6 $153
5 $151
4 $149
3 $148
2 $146
1 $144

I would rather have this scale with straight pay rather than take a lower base pay with 1.5 over 70 with the rates we have now. After speaking with MANY pilots this new scale appears to be extremely popular with Jetblue pilots.

 

This payscale looks fine to me. I doubt the company or the most senior guys are going to go for it.
Any accountant-types that could give an opinion as to whether higher costs would result?

 

Actually, you would be surprised at the amount of "senior" guys that support this idea. This comes from all three bases. After digging up some numbers, there are a few pilot lines that credit over 130 credit hours a month. These extraordinary lines may be more vocal but they are not the majority.

As far as the company is concerned, the company certainly CAN afford it. The question then becomes do they WANT to afford it.

 

Since you posted this idea a while back I've thought about it and run numbers as you have done.
I think you have a good idea here. It can work within the present economics of the company and certainly work when the bottom line improves.

 

Here is a look at the A320 First Officer rates.

First row is currrent base rate
Second row is current blended 95 hour rate
Third row is SOUTHWEST LESS 10%

Year
12 76 86 108
11 76 86 107
10 76 86 105
9 75 85 104
8 74 84 104
7 74 84 101
6 73 82 101
5 72 81 98
4 67 75 90
3 61 69 81
2 56 63 73
1 51 57 51 (frozen)

Would a first officer give up 1.5 over 70 and take the Southwest less 10%? I don't know one that wouldn't.

 

I don't know about 10% below SWA pay, but what has anyone heard about a 10% raise? I heard, via rumor, not reliable source, no more CSPP, 10% pay raise, all stock options vested on 1 Jan 06, and no more options after next two new hire classes, due to new accounting rules. Anyone?

 

Capt A320 FO A320

12 $164 $108
11 $162 $107
10 $160 $105
9 $158 $104
8 $157 $104
7 $155 $101
6 $153 $101
5 $151 $98
4 $149 $90
3 $148 $81
2 $146 $73
1 $144 $51

Thanks for the feedback and PM's guys.
See you at ABN site. Mindtrick out.

 

I don't know about 10% below SWA pay, but what has anyone heard about a 10% raise? I heard, via rumor, not reliable source, no more CSPP, 10% pay raise, all stock options vested on 1 Jan 06, and no more options after next two new hire classes, due to new accounting rules. Anyone? :confused

WMW I heard this also as a rumor. However when I bounced it off my ACP buddy he said "your dreamin'" to the pay raise part.