I fully understand the envy from those who had to pay their dues and endure years of poor jobs on their way up.

With that said, and removing any discussion of money out of it, the fact remains that if the training is done to the right standard, and taught to subjects of the right calibre, there is absolutely no argument to pretend it would be less safe than the traditional US industry model.

QANTAS, British Airways, Cathay Pacific, KLM, Lufthansa, Air NZ, Virgin Atlantic, Emirates, JAL and many more have ab-initio training programmes. Countless others will take guys fresh out of flying school.

There is no safer 'bucket' of airlines than those listed above. The driving force behind that is the standard of training and the calibre of the individual.

We all know high time guys that are next to useless, and low time guys that have genuine talent and natural airmanship. Time means little. Similarly, if the B6 training is crap, or they aren't recruiting the right guys into the programme, it will be a disaster.

Some of the above training programmes are entirely free of charge, others require the student to pay up front. The financial aspect is a different argument all together - and driven entirely by supply and demand. As mentioned, we could see the legacy carriers offering fully paid up cadetships in the future, if the economy and industry continue to flourish.

That may seem novel in the US, but to the rest of the world, it really isn't.

PFT schemes come and go with airline hiring cycles. News cycles will cover the "pilot shortage" more and more during the next 15 years until industry pay gets high enough to attract more people into it.

When you really look at it 1500hr FO starting out at a regional isn't all that different than a 1500hr FO starting out at JB. Why is it acceptable for regionals but not JetBlue (aside from the pay)? For regionals it was a step up in safety etc. from 250hr commercial hiring mins.

JetBlue management is keenly worried about the pilot shortage long term. There's no way they can drop pilot pay (even though cutting pilot costs sounds good to their investors) because their pilots will jump ship to the legacies and they'll fail.

The 125k price (plus the price of a 4 year degree) is going to be prohibitively expensive for most people anyways unless JetBlue finances it themselves. If the union wants to combat this PFT program the CBA should attack any sort of seat locks and training contracts for any new hire accessions and upgrades to limit the company's leverage over a PFT accession beyond their probation period on property, and the CBA should ensure the same pays ale for all pilots regardless of accession sources and the Pilot group should welcome them with open arms so they're less likely to side with management.

You had me up until "time means little." During 99.999% of airline operations, I would agree to a large extent that experience isn't necessarily a decisive factor in the safety of airline operations.

During that .001% of ops in which no written material applies, the experience is nearly everything.

Why is it okay to pay $50-70K at my local flight school, be trained to fly in a general aviation sense, and then get hired by a Regional at 1,500. Also, the $125K includes housing and many fees. When it's all said and done it won't be too far off from ATP's fees, which many Regional pilots flow through.

As I mentioned in my first post, I sincerely hope anyone who has the qualifications and experience land the spots they've worked hard for ahead of someone going through an ab-initio route. I'm fully aware of the work those people have put it and they deserve the rewards.

However, times are changing, and simply because those before me accepted substandard living wages for seemingly endless years doesn't mean the next generation has to.

Like others said, it will be me in twenty years complaining that cadets have their programs paid for and received higher pay that wasn't available to me when I started. None of this is really about safety or experience, it's about perceived fairness and money.

Absolutely not.

The whole reason I imagine JB has these candidates pay in the first place is to test the waters to see how successful the program is with little monetary loss to them if it fails or needs adjustment. As well as keeping the pilots union from having a collective heart attack.
If the program succeeds (like it has for many other airlines) JB will begin to absorbe the cost like others have said.

After hounding a JB representative connected to the program through e-mail, she suspects successful canidates to make roughly 40k, maybe 50 once joining the line. Which currently is a liveable wage and not slurping sodium in a bunkbed. If the industry picks this up then the regional lifestyle would end or at the very least diminished dramatically.

This is merely speculation at this point.

I get your point, but I don't entirely agree.

During that .001% of Ops, experience may help. Equally, of greater use is knowledge, decision making, TEM, etc.

Experience may help with those things too, but it's not a precursor. If you select individuals with a tested aptitude for the important skill-set, I'd say that guy is more useful than a magenta drone with 8,000. The military also agree.

Hence, the airlines I mentioned continue to maintain as high a safety ranking and record as it is possible to get in the industry.

Perhaps saying 'experience means little' was too strong a term, but you get the general drift of my post, I'm sure.

Value Jet 592. When your time is up, your time is up.
The same could almost be said for Swissair 111. The captain was one of the most expirenced pilots at Swissair and the FO wasn't straight from flight school either. The whole thing might have been avoided if he did a pan pan call when he smelled smoke and diverted straight to Halifax just to play it safe, but his expirence likely told him it was the A/C system. There are times when expirence means nothing if the cards are stacked against you.

You already know that, but that's just my thought on that.

Your repeated references to slurping sodium in a bunkbed indicate how little you actually know about this profession you're attempting to join. (Hint: Crashpad existence is by no means limited to regional pilots).

Most of us aren't opposed to the idea of a better defined route from flight school to major airline cockpit. We are, however, opposed to a route that knocks several years off the accumulated experience that should be gained in the meantime. Arguing that your ability to write a check for 125k entitles you to skip the thousands of pilots whom are already qualified and desire that position is a non-starter on a forum of airline pilots.

Roughly 40k maybe 50 is a livable wage? It's what regular new-hire pay ends up being, but to characterize it as "livable" is way off the mark. Then again if you have a spare 125k to pony up for a job here I'm sure you're not worrying about the pitiful 1st year pay.
Maybe JB should try to make even more money off these people and charge 125k to get into the 190 and say, 150k to get into the 320.

Absolutely. I feel this will be the psychological impediment amongst line pilots that will brand this group as... Who knows what. Well the good news for Gateway 7 guys/gals is that with electronic charts no one can take a dump in your flight bag like the old days. :eek: So at least there's that.