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02-08-2018, 07:07 PM
#5491
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,881
Originally Posted by pilotpayne
I doubt I can hurt your feelings.
There was a payne wants a timeline thread?
So you go with 2020 me I’ll go with 2018. Yes yes I know I said 2017 it’s a rolling delay
I do know if we go to 2020 this place will be a total mess. I’m not sure a good contract will get the pilot good will back but if we hit 2020....yikes
There was a payne wants a timeline thread?
So you go with 2020 me I’ll go with 2018. Yes yes I know I said 2017 it’s a rolling delay
I do know if we go to 2020 this place will be a total mess. I’m not sure a good contract will get the pilot good will back but if we hit 2020....yikes
Bluedriver's Avatar Bluedriver , 01-01-2018 10:39 AM
So Payne wants a timeline. Well Payne, the company controls the timeline, and they will not settle a contract that costs them hundreds of millions of dollars and restricts their operations with peer standard work rules until conditions on the ground change or they see a business need to do so.
Right now they get almost everything they want from us pilots at Walmart prices. It doesn't matter that we are awash in cash and have at or near industry leading margins. It doesn't matter that closing this contract is the right or moral thing to do. They will not do it until they are no longer getting almost everything they want from us at the current rates. Or the Union campaign creates a business need to finish it or Wall Street sees a reason.
None of those things are even close to happening right now. There has always been plenty of information available to know that Summer 2017, or Fall 2017, or "surely done by year end 2017" was NEVER going to happen. But that doesn't mean there is enough information to predict when it will get finished and I'm not dumb enough to try.
Our management has been less blatant and more calculating than Spirit or Frontier, but I believe you will see us trending that direction. Go ahead, tell me I'm wrong, I'm fully expecting it from you and the other usual suspects.
After all this negotiating in "good faith" that you guys keep telling me about, the company isn't even offering us pay rates "close" to Alaska. And Alaska rates are a non-starter NO to our union and our pilots (maybe not you).
So I suggest you take a second look at how things are going at Spirit and Frontier. As I said, our management will be more calculating and less blatant, but beyond that start understanding there are going to be more similarities than you thought.
Go ahead, tell me I'm wrong. Tell me I'm just being negative. Tell me I'm not reading the Union emails or talking to my union reps.
I've heard it all before, yet the contract isn't even CLOSE to being done.
02-08-2018, 08:43 PM
#5492
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,918
Originally Posted by Bluedriver
No, my official answer(sorry it's copy-paste and not entirely delicate):
Bluedriver's Avatar Bluedriver , 01-01-2018 10:39 AM
So Payne wants a timeline. Well Payne, the company controls the timeline, and they will not settle a contract that costs them hundreds of millions of dollars and restricts their operations with peer standard work rules until conditions on the ground change or they see a business need to do so.
Right now they get almost everything they want from us pilots at Walmart prices. It doesn't matter that we are awash in cash and have at or near industry leading margins. It doesn't matter that closing this contract is the right or moral thing to do. They will not do it until they are no longer getting almost everything they want from us at the current rates. Or the Union campaign creates a business need to finish it or Wall Street sees a reason.
None of those things are even close to happening right now. There has always been plenty of information available to know that Summer 2017, or Fall 2017, or "surely done by year end 2017" was NEVER going to happen. But that doesn't mean there is enough information to predict when it will get finished and I'm not dumb enough to try.
Our management has been less blatant and more calculating than Spirit or Frontier, but I believe you will see us trending that direction. Go ahead, tell me I'm wrong, I'm fully expecting it from you and the other usual suspects.
After all this negotiating in "good faith" that you guys keep telling me about, the company isn't even offering us pay rates "close" to Alaska. And Alaska rates are a non-starter NO to our union and our pilots (maybe not you).
So I suggest you take a second look at how things are going at Spirit and Frontier. As I said, our management will be more calculating and less blatant, but beyond that start understanding there are going to be more similarities than you thought.
Go ahead, tell me I'm wrong. Tell me I'm just being negative. Tell me I'm not reading the Union emails or talking to my union reps.
I've heard it all before, yet the contract isn't even CLOSE to being done.
Bluedriver's Avatar Bluedriver , 01-01-2018 10:39 AM
So Payne wants a timeline. Well Payne, the company controls the timeline, and they will not settle a contract that costs them hundreds of millions of dollars and restricts their operations with peer standard work rules until conditions on the ground change or they see a business need to do so.
Right now they get almost everything they want from us pilots at Walmart prices. It doesn't matter that we are awash in cash and have at or near industry leading margins. It doesn't matter that closing this contract is the right or moral thing to do. They will not do it until they are no longer getting almost everything they want from us at the current rates. Or the Union campaign creates a business need to finish it or Wall Street sees a reason.
None of those things are even close to happening right now. There has always been plenty of information available to know that Summer 2017, or Fall 2017, or "surely done by year end 2017" was NEVER going to happen. But that doesn't mean there is enough information to predict when it will get finished and I'm not dumb enough to try.
Our management has been less blatant and more calculating than Spirit or Frontier, but I believe you will see us trending that direction. Go ahead, tell me I'm wrong, I'm fully expecting it from you and the other usual suspects.
After all this negotiating in "good faith" that you guys keep telling me about, the company isn't even offering us pay rates "close" to Alaska. And Alaska rates are a non-starter NO to our union and our pilots (maybe not you).
So I suggest you take a second look at how things are going at Spirit and Frontier. As I said, our management will be more calculating and less blatant, but beyond that start understanding there are going to be more similarities than you thought.
Go ahead, tell me I'm wrong. Tell me I'm just being negative. Tell me I'm not reading the Union emails or talking to my union reps.
I've heard it all before, yet the contract isn't even CLOSE to being done.
It’s a good answer and you can’t be wrong. When the company is ready or they feel outside pressure. Very helpful I was looking for a year. I think you knew that but reading your post you can’t make that type of guess.
I do wonder bluedriver do you talk to people the same way you type to them? I would hop not.
02-09-2018, 12:32 AM
#5493
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 195
Originally Posted by Bluedriver
Yeah Joe, and you guys weren't telling me how wrong I was for the last two years? Had you guys actually been right, and we had a deal done by summer 2017 or surely by end of year 2017, you would have all been telling me how wrong I was (again) and how right you were...
I don't believe for a second that you guys wouldn't have called me out for being wrong had this gone the way you guys thought. But it didn't, so you guys just focus on how meany meany I am.
I don't believe for a second that you guys wouldn't have called me out for being wrong had this gone the way you guys thought. But it didn't, so you guys just focus on how meany meany I am.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
02-09-2018, 03:29 AM
#5494
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,236
Originally Posted by Squeaky banana
This post does lots of good
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
02-09-2018, 04:51 AM
#5495
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,881
Originally Posted by pilotpayne
No I missed that when I took some time off BP and APC.
It’s a good answer and you can’t be wrong. When the company is ready or they feel outside pressure. Very helpful I was looking for a year. I think you knew that but reading your post you can’t make that type of guess.
I do wonder bluedriver do you talk to people the same way you type to them? I would hop not.
It’s a good answer and you can’t be wrong. When the company is ready or they feel outside pressure. Very helpful I was looking for a year. I think you knew that but reading your post you can’t make that type of guess.
I do wonder bluedriver do you talk to people the same way you type to them? I would hop not.
Only say what I'm reasonably confident in. I had plenty of info to say "no, it will not be done year end 2017". I don't have enough to say if it will be 2018-2019-2020-2021-2022, etc... I'm going to need to see conditions change before I can narrow it down more.
I wish I did!
I'm not so bad in real life, humor is my normal default. Unless I don't like you, then the default is Fly-fi or something else out of my flight-bag...
I'm gonna try not to be so meany meany again. You'll just need to remind me again in a few months (maybe days).
It's much easier to respect the opinion of others when they actually respect yours. That goes for all of us.
02-09-2018, 04:55 AM
#5496
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,881
Originally Posted by rvr1800
It helps his ego. That’s the point. It’s BD against everyone apparently. We’re all just waiting for him to tell us how the world works. That’s why we read this website.
02-09-2018, 05:28 AM
#5497
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,236
Originally Posted by Bluedriver
Ha, works both ways amigo.
02-09-2018, 05:53 AM
#5498
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,881
Originally Posted by rvr1800
That’s true and we all have differing opinions and that is fine. However many of us listen to other opinions and don’t immediately shoot them down and resort to name calling. But as I said before I’m gonna move on from this. (I think I mean it this time). We’re all on the same side and we all want the same thing for the most part. Unity will be the key to our success here. And I think when it comes down to it we will all be there for each other.
Name calling isn't so bad, it can get you elected president of the United States.
02-09-2018, 06:03 AM
#5499
Covfefe
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
Originally Posted by Bluedriver
We will. For the record, I never felt like people were respecting my opinion.
Name calling isn't so bad, it can get you elected president of the United States.
Name calling isn't so bad, it can get you elected president of the United States.
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