Kalitta Air (K4) Information
10-27-2019, 10:18 AM
#2251
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,275
Originally Posted by Blackhawk
The only thing you need to watch for is some cargo precludes taking pax. Not often, but you would have to call ops to check. They probably wouldn’t even let you list as a pax for those flights.
10-27-2019, 11:13 AM
#2252
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Doing Just Fine
Posts: 356
Originally Posted by No Land 3
We had one K2 guy come over last April, nice guy that flew Lears. He was the start of it.
10-29-2019, 10:36 AM
#2254
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 140
Originally Posted by No Land 3
Maybe we are thinking of two different people?
10-30-2019, 04:48 AM
#2255
VHR-very happily retired
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Retired
Posts: 1,409
Originally Posted by CA Deplorable
Two Different guys and the K2 guy didn't have to resign to get on at K4, he accepted a position with WGA and resigned while awaiting his class date was offered an interview at K4 because he was already typed in -400 via Skylease. Facts!!
From a company standpoint I cannot see an advantage. Doug has just as much trouble recruiting pilots as the rest of the industry. Pilots from Charters bring no special skills or knowledge of Kalitta Air, like a Delta commuter pilot would of the Delta system. Charters pilots fly low hours, in analog equipment, domestically. There could be some transfer of knowledge due to their operation in the DHL system for domestic 767 operations.
K4 gets resumes from much higher qualified pilots.
10-30-2019, 08:26 AM
#2256
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 140
Originally Posted by maxjet
This is accurate if I remember our conversation correctly. Point being is that as of this moment there has never been a flow.
From a company standpoint I cannot see an advantage. Doug has just as much trouble recruiting pilots as the rest of the industry. Pilots from Charters bring no special skills or knowledge of Kalitta Air, like a Delta commuter pilot would of the Delta system. Charters pilots fly low hours, in analog equipment, domestically. There could be some transfer of knowledge due to their operation in the DHL system for domestic 767 operations.
K4 gets resumes from much higher qualified pilots.
From a company standpoint I cannot see an advantage. Doug has just as much trouble recruiting pilots as the rest of the industry. Pilots from Charters bring no special skills or knowledge of Kalitta Air, like a Delta commuter pilot would of the Delta system. Charters pilots fly low hours, in analog equipment, domestically. There could be some transfer of knowledge due to their operation in the DHL system for domestic 767 operations.
K4 gets resumes from much higher qualified pilots.
Last edited by CA Deplorable; 10-30-2019 at 08:42 AM.
10-30-2019, 02:04 PM
#2257
On Reserve
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Position: Caporegime.
Posts: 21
Originally Posted by maxjet
This is accurate if I remember our conversation correctly. Point being is that as of this moment there has never been a flow.
From a company standpoint I cannot see an advantage. Doug has just as much trouble recruiting pilots as the rest of the industry. Pilots from Charters bring no special skills or knowledge of Kalitta Air, like a Delta commuter pilot would of the Delta system. Charters pilots fly low hours, in analog equipment, domestically. There could be some transfer of knowledge due to their operation in the DHL system for domestic 767 operations.
K4 gets resumes from much higher qualified pilots.
From a company standpoint I cannot see an advantage. Doug has just as much trouble recruiting pilots as the rest of the industry. Pilots from Charters bring no special skills or knowledge of Kalitta Air, like a Delta commuter pilot would of the Delta system. Charters pilots fly low hours, in analog equipment, domestically. There could be some transfer of knowledge due to their operation in the DHL system for domestic 767 operations.
K4 gets resumes from much higher qualified pilots.
They’re used to operating into Mexico at all hours of the night and in all weather running on low sleep, keeping their wits in the mountains without the benefit of moving maps and V-NAV.
They’ve taken Lears all over the world without CP-DLC and, again, without real automation. Europe. Pacific and Pacific Rim. Russia. In aging Lears without even a Gatorade bottle for use as a lav.
Because of the age and complexity of the equipment, they maintain a familiarity with their systems that harkens back to the flying mentality of the 50s and 60s. This is necessary because a misbehaving classic Lear that isn’t handled intelligently will kill you almost as efficiently as a well placed bullet. There is no EICAS to tell you exactly what’s wrong. The emergency procedures documentation might as well say “Good Luck.” You know the systems and think about them, or they will eventually threaten you.
They’re used to operating on a 15 minute call in some bases. They aren’t ruffled or chaffed by change, because change is just their way of life. They’re on top of their flight planning, freight paperwork, customs, accommodations, and pretty much every other detail because they have to be.
So when you talk about “more qualified” applicants, it sounds a bit droll to me.
Sure, others have valuable wide body experience and a whole lot of time flying by FMS inputs. But charters 1/2 pilots coming off the
Lear/Falcon/727/DC-9 have a lot of intangibles too. Mental toughness, self sufficiency, exceptional situational awareness, an actual instrument scan, and on and on. I’m betting the newer 737 folk are more alike these people than not.
If that doesn’t convince anyone, then it shouldn’t go unsaid that charters 1/2 *could* be an opportunity for K4 to grow and monitor rising talent years before that talent actually shows up in class at K4.
YMMV.
10-30-2019, 02:09 PM
#2258
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Doing Just Fine
Posts: 356
Originally Posted by CA Deplorable
Two Different guys and the K2 guy didn't have to resign to get on at K4, he accepted a position with WGA and resigned while awaiting his class date was offered an interview at K4 because he was already typed in -400 via Skylease. Facts!!
10-30-2019, 02:51 PM
#2259
Polyester Pilot
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: 777 CA
Posts: 510
Originally Posted by FrankPentangeli
KC pilots operate as basic crews for duty days that require 4 pilots in our operation, because they do as much 91 flying on the tail of a trip as they do revenue flying. They do so with minimal support, almost non-existent automation, and without creature comforts.
They’re used to operating into Mexico at all hours of the night and in all weather running on low sleep, keeping their wits in the mountains without the benefit of moving maps and V-NAV.
They’ve taken Lears all over the world without CP-DLC and, again, without real automation. Europe. Pacific and Pacific Rim. Russia. In aging Lears without even a Gatorade bottle for use as a lav.
Because of the age and complexity of the equipment, they maintain a familiarity with their systems that harkens back to the flying mentality of the 50s and 60s. This is necessary because a misbehaving classic Lear that isn’t handled intelligently will kill you almost as efficiently as a well placed bullet. There is no EICAS to tell you exactly what’s wrong. The emergency procedures documentation might as well say “Good Luck.” You know the systems and think about them, or they will eventually threaten you.
They’re used to operating on a 15 minute call in some bases. They aren’t ruffled or chaffed by change, because change is just their way of life. They’re on top of their flight planning, freight paperwork, customs, accommodations, and pretty much every other detail because they have to be.
So when you talk about “more qualified” applicants, it sounds a bit droll to me.
Sure, others have valuable wide body experience and a whole lot of time flying by FMS inputs. But charters 1/2 pilots coming off the
Lear/Falcon/727/DC-9 have a lot of intangibles too. Mental toughness, self sufficiency, exceptional situational awareness, an actual instrument scan, and on and on. I’m betting the newer 737 folk are more alike these people than not.
If that doesn’t convince anyone, then it shouldn’t go unsaid that charters 1/2 *could* be an opportunity for K4 to grow and monitor rising talent years before that talent actually shows up in class at K4.
YMMV.
They’re used to operating into Mexico at all hours of the night and in all weather running on low sleep, keeping their wits in the mountains without the benefit of moving maps and V-NAV.
They’ve taken Lears all over the world without CP-DLC and, again, without real automation. Europe. Pacific and Pacific Rim. Russia. In aging Lears without even a Gatorade bottle for use as a lav.
Because of the age and complexity of the equipment, they maintain a familiarity with their systems that harkens back to the flying mentality of the 50s and 60s. This is necessary because a misbehaving classic Lear that isn’t handled intelligently will kill you almost as efficiently as a well placed bullet. There is no EICAS to tell you exactly what’s wrong. The emergency procedures documentation might as well say “Good Luck.” You know the systems and think about them, or they will eventually threaten you.
They’re used to operating on a 15 minute call in some bases. They aren’t ruffled or chaffed by change, because change is just their way of life. They’re on top of their flight planning, freight paperwork, customs, accommodations, and pretty much every other detail because they have to be.
So when you talk about “more qualified” applicants, it sounds a bit droll to me.
Sure, others have valuable wide body experience and a whole lot of time flying by FMS inputs. But charters 1/2 pilots coming off the
Lear/Falcon/727/DC-9 have a lot of intangibles too. Mental toughness, self sufficiency, exceptional situational awareness, an actual instrument scan, and on and on. I’m betting the newer 737 folk are more alike these people than not.
If that doesn’t convince anyone, then it shouldn’t go unsaid that charters 1/2 *could* be an opportunity for K4 to grow and monitor rising talent years before that talent actually shows up in class at K4.
YMMV.
10-30-2019, 03:45 PM
#2260
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: C47 PIC/747-400 SIC
Posts: 2,100
Originally Posted by FrankPentangeli
KC pilots operate as basic crews for duty days that require 4 pilots in our operation, because they do as much 91 flying on the tail of a trip as they do revenue flying. They do so with minimal support, almost non-existent automation, and without creature comforts.
They’re used to operating into Mexico at all hours of the night and in all weather running on low sleep, keeping their wits in the mountains without the benefit of moving maps and V-NAV.
They’ve taken Lears all over the world without CP-DLC and, again, without real automation. Europe. Pacific and Pacific Rim. Russia. In aging Lears without even a Gatorade bottle for use as a lav.
Because of the age and complexity of the equipment, they maintain a familiarity with their systems that harkens back to the flying mentality of the 50s and 60s. This is necessary because a misbehaving classic Lear that isn’t handled intelligently will kill you almost as efficiently as a well placed bullet. There is no EICAS to tell you exactly what’s wrong. The emergency procedures documentation might as well say “Good Luck.” You know the systems and think about them, or they will eventually threaten you.
They’re used to operating on a 15 minute call in some bases. They aren’t ruffled or chaffed by change, because change is just their way of life. They’re on top of their flight planning, freight paperwork, customs, accommodations, and pretty much every other detail because they have to be.
So when you talk about “more qualified” applicants, it sounds a bit droll to me.
Sure, others have valuable wide body experience and a whole lot of time flying by FMS inputs. But charters 1/2 pilots coming off the
Lear/Falcon/727/DC-9 have a lot of intangibles too. Mental toughness, self sufficiency, exceptional situational awareness, an actual instrument scan, and on and on. I’m betting the newer 737 folk are more alike these people than not.
If that doesn’t convince anyone, then it shouldn’t go unsaid that charters 1/2 *could* be an opportunity for K4 to grow and monitor rising talent years before that talent actually shows up in class at K4.
YMMV.
They’re used to operating into Mexico at all hours of the night and in all weather running on low sleep, keeping their wits in the mountains without the benefit of moving maps and V-NAV.
They’ve taken Lears all over the world without CP-DLC and, again, without real automation. Europe. Pacific and Pacific Rim. Russia. In aging Lears without even a Gatorade bottle for use as a lav.
Because of the age and complexity of the equipment, they maintain a familiarity with their systems that harkens back to the flying mentality of the 50s and 60s. This is necessary because a misbehaving classic Lear that isn’t handled intelligently will kill you almost as efficiently as a well placed bullet. There is no EICAS to tell you exactly what’s wrong. The emergency procedures documentation might as well say “Good Luck.” You know the systems and think about them, or they will eventually threaten you.
They’re used to operating on a 15 minute call in some bases. They aren’t ruffled or chaffed by change, because change is just their way of life. They’re on top of their flight planning, freight paperwork, customs, accommodations, and pretty much every other detail because they have to be.
So when you talk about “more qualified” applicants, it sounds a bit droll to me.
Sure, others have valuable wide body experience and a whole lot of time flying by FMS inputs. But charters 1/2 pilots coming off the
Lear/Falcon/727/DC-9 have a lot of intangibles too. Mental toughness, self sufficiency, exceptional situational awareness, an actual instrument scan, and on and on. I’m betting the newer 737 folk are more alike these people than not.
If that doesn’t convince anyone, then it shouldn’t go unsaid that charters 1/2 *could* be an opportunity for K4 to grow and monitor rising talent years before that talent actually shows up in class at K4.
YMMV.
Frank you are my brother !!! DC3/CV340 and 747 K4 alumni !!!
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