Originally Posted by maxjet

I suspect it is a combination of, not getting to fly and liking it becoming a paid passenger for a year, trying to memorize gouge instead of understanding the material, poor initial training where the pilot was “forced” through the system by very caring instructors.

K4 AQP program is no different than anyone else. 2 days of train to proficiency sims followed by a PC style of check (non Pria) filled by a
OKE and a LOFT where you have a problem.

Originally Posted by elfouquer

What a joke! I've never met a "caring" instructor who yelled or threw clipboards in the sim. Our training department is riddled with problems. We have a real issue with check airmen giving 1s on event sets that by FAA AQP standards that should have been graded a 2.



Our AQP footprint meets the min requirements for certification. UPS has a footprint that includes twice as many sims as K4.


Our training department also has a tendency to break it's own policy by allowing 2 OPT first officers to take part in a jeopardy event together rather than bringing in a quaified captain for seat support, thus setting people up for failure. I've talked to Delta and United pilots who say this is absolutely egregious and would never happen on their property.



Lastly, I'm hearing rumors of check airmen going behind closed doors with the flight standards captain and changing grades after the student has already signed the report. Again, rumors only, but if they turn out to be true, there will be some serious hot water with the FAA.


At some point, our training department will reap what it sows.

Originally Posted by WhaleWrangler

Charlie's Angels!!

I hear he is going to be running the new fleet so it will be insteresting to see just how bad he will screw that up, because like the 400 I guess he will figure Boeing and the other operators have been doing it all wrong for years.

Originally Posted by Geezer

How "poor" is the training?
How many other AQP training programs have you been through?

Originally Posted by elfouquer

What a joke! I've never met a "caring" instructor who yelled or threw clipboards in the sim. Our training department is riddled with problems. We have a real issue with check airmen giving 1s on event sets that by FAA AQP standards that should have been graded a 2.

If an instructor throws a clipboard or in anyway physically threatens a student that would be grounds for discipline or even termination.


Our AQP footprint meets the min requirements for certification. UPS has a footprint that includes twice as many sims as K4.

UPS does not have 26 sims in their new hire program. Most AQP programs have in the last year found that they have had to add an extra FTD and an extra Sim. K4 is looking into this but due to the high volume of training it may be difficult until things slow down. Not aware of anybody increasing the 5 day recurrent footprint


Our training department also has a tendency to break it's own policy by allowing 2 OPT first officers to take part in a jeopardy event together rather than bringing in a quaified captain for seat support, thus setting people up for failure. I've talked to Delta and United pilots who say this is absolutely egregious and would never happen on their property.

This does happen. It is not good.



Lastly, I'm hearing rumors of check airmen going behind closed doors with the flight standards captain and changing grades after the student has already signed the report. Again, rumors only, but if they turn out to be true, there will be some serious hot water with the FAA.

This is complete bull crap.


At some point, our training department will reap what it sows.

Originally Posted by maxjet

I sure do hope that you are correct. There are nothing but caring instructors in the training department. One of the big problems I see is cheating pilots. I have witnessed pilots use the actual ACP instructor question bank as their gouge during the OKE.

We all reap what we sow. Memorize the answers and not know the process? Never a good method. Example: We have had pilots who didn’t know that if the #4 demand pump is inop and you shut down the #4 engine that at about flaps 10 speed you will lose the windmilling EDP and #4 hydraulics. Response from the student? “How am I supposed to know that?” How about Pilots who do not know how to manually start an engine? Is the recurrent trading supposed to be 30 days long so that every possible problem can be covered? Should every pilot strive to stay proficient on their own? You are correct we reap what we sow from both ends.

Originally Posted by elfouquer

Please show me in the AOM Vol 2 where it talks about the EDP and flaps 10 speed. I'll give you a hint. It's not there. There's nothing in the QRH to lead you to the so lo ution either.
What is the purpose of ASAP/FOQA programs? To highlight trend items that have occurred on the line, thus allowing the company to develop realistic training scenarios. When was the last time ASAP or FOQA identified a castostrophic hydraulic failure? Another hint. It hasn't.

Kalitta instead uses ASAP and FOQA as a punishment tool, and the training department develops unreaistic scenarios for the specific purpose of picking off pilots who have at one point shown weakness.
Again there is a reason that our OPT numbers are higher than anywhere else in the industry. Final hint. It ain't because we're hiring s#!+ pilots.

Originally Posted by elfouquer

Please show me in the AOM Vol 2 where it talks about the EDP and flaps 10 speed. I'll give you a hint. It's not there. There's nothing in the QRH to lead you to the so lo ution either.
What is the purpose of ASAP/FOQA programs? To highlight trend items that have occurred on the line, thus allowing the company to develop realistic training scenarios. When was the last time ASAP or FOQA identified a castostrophic hydraulic failure? Another hint. It hasn't.

Kalitta instead uses ASAP and FOQA as a punishment tool, and the training department develops unreaistic scenarios for the specific purpose of picking off pilots who have at one point shown weakness.
Again there is a reason that our OPT numbers are higher than anywhere else in the industry. Final hint. It ain't because we're hiring s#!+ pilots.

Originally Posted by Rumpel

At the expense of sounding ignorant, what are "OPT numbers"?