Kalitta Air (K4) Information
08-29-2018, 08:48 PM
#371
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Position: Old and Unemployed
Posts: 107
Originally Posted by jhugz
Problems with our AQP off the top of my head:
1.) FO/FO pairings
2.) OPT/OPT pairings
3.) Over the top LOE scenarios that go way overboard. We shouldn’t have to deal with 16 problems plus 3 of them compounding. The LOE is suppose to be ASAP driven and a realistic line flight. You want to give us a total hydraulic failure/engine failure/etc do it on a training flight not a PRIA reportable checkride.
4.) Students being sent on checkrides instead of receiving additional training.
5.) The training department blaming poor statistics on candidates. If Delta can hire 2500 hour FOs that have never sat in the left seat and have a 99% initial pass rate with only 3% of their pilots on OPT I call BS on this argument.
I’ve worked with you before T and I actual think you’re a good instructor so don’t take this the wrong way. I’m just so tired of our AQP inadequacies being blamed on the pilot group. Your point on gouges isn’t wrong, but when we have 20 things go wrong on a LOE flight what do you expect? It’s the only way to catch all those land mines.
1.) FO/FO pairings
2.) OPT/OPT pairings
3.) Over the top LOE scenarios that go way overboard. We shouldn’t have to deal with 16 problems plus 3 of them compounding. The LOE is suppose to be ASAP driven and a realistic line flight. You want to give us a total hydraulic failure/engine failure/etc do it on a training flight not a PRIA reportable checkride.
4.) Students being sent on checkrides instead of receiving additional training.
5.) The training department blaming poor statistics on candidates. If Delta can hire 2500 hour FOs that have never sat in the left seat and have a 99% initial pass rate with only 3% of their pilots on OPT I call BS on this argument.
I’ve worked with you before T and I actual think you’re a good instructor so don’t take this the wrong way. I’m just so tired of our AQP inadequacies being blamed on the pilot group. Your point on gouges isn’t wrong, but when we have 20 things go wrong on a LOE flight what do you expect? It’s the only way to catch all those land mines.
Okay. Once again I will jump into the fray...
1) FO/FO pairings. No way around it. We have two FOs for every Captain. Mathematically impossible to get away from the FO/FO pairing. And, if you are paying attention, you should be able to perform the duties from either seat. And, (at least in my checkrides), I give some leniency for the FO that is in the left seat. More than I would give a Captain.
2) OPT/OPT pairings. Not supposed to happen. Been up this road multiple times with the girls who schedule. If you find yourself in one, see me. I will fix it.
3) Over the top LOE scenarios? Really? You can't reason your way through a subtle loss of hydraulics? There is never going to be a checklist for all possibilities (see Ocskyguy's Rule Number 1). You need to have sufficient system understanding to reason your way through a malfunction. This is not, and never will be Delta. We hand you the keys to the jet and expect you to have enough understanding to think your way through a problem when you have little or no support from the Brain Trust at the other end of the ACARS. If you want your hand held 24/7 while you are at work, you need to be looking for another job.
4) I call TOTAL BULL******. We never force a new hire to a gate when they are not ready. EVER! If you are in a CQ or an Upgrade, it is different. Those events are covered by the CBA that your union agreed to. You go to the gate. If it is unsuccessful, you will be given extra training and another go, or two, or three. The number of pilots who have been asked to resign because of training failures in the last several years can be counted on one hand.
5) Equally, I call Bull******. The majority of pilots in OPT are there because of failures on a PV or MPV (neither is a PRIA reportable event). So, only us and them know. And, a great majority of them are there for a specific event, which is the V1 cut, resulting in a crash. So, I ask you, if you know deep down inside that a real V1 engine failure may kill you and the rest of the crew because you are unable to demonstrate your skill in the simulator, would you not want extra training to help you improve on your skill and hopefully, when the bad day does come you get to live?
If you are going to throw rocks, have the balls to identify yourself and take it to the people who can address your concerns. I am proud of our training department. We work damn hard at trying to keep you alive...
08-29-2018, 09:04 PM
#372
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Position: Old and Unemployed
Posts: 107
One More Thing
Since at least one of you has chosen to disparage the 400 Standards Captain, I am going to share another opinion.
I have known C for over 30 years. That man works harder for all of your collective benefit than you could possibly imagine. Yes, he may call you up and ***** you out about something non-standard (or, stupid) that you did in the plane. But, did it go any further? My guess is no. You didn't get fired. And (probably, justifiably) you did get embarrassed. Oh well, you earned it.
He has gone to the wall to save folks that would have been fired except for his efforts. And, legitimately, he has not protested a few who probably never should have been here in the first place when they got the axe.
I have repeatedly stated that I would never do his job for his money. As we are moving to a new fleet, if any of you think you are up to the task and are going to do a better job, by all means step up to the plate and prove how good you are...
And, leave his personal life personal. I am sure you would expect the same courtesy from any of us...
I have known C for over 30 years. That man works harder for all of your collective benefit than you could possibly imagine. Yes, he may call you up and ***** you out about something non-standard (or, stupid) that you did in the plane. But, did it go any further? My guess is no. You didn't get fired. And (probably, justifiably) you did get embarrassed. Oh well, you earned it.
He has gone to the wall to save folks that would have been fired except for his efforts. And, legitimately, he has not protested a few who probably never should have been here in the first place when they got the axe.
I have repeatedly stated that I would never do his job for his money. As we are moving to a new fleet, if any of you think you are up to the task and are going to do a better job, by all means step up to the plate and prove how good you are...
And, leave his personal life personal. I am sure you would expect the same courtesy from any of us...
08-29-2018, 11:11 PM
#373
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 299
Originally Posted by ocskyguy
Okay. Once again I will jump into the fray...
1) FO/FO pairings. No way around it. We have two FOs for every Captain. Mathematically impossible to get away from the FO/FO pairing. And, if you are paying attention, you should be able to perform the duties from either seat. And, (at least in my checkrides), I give some leniency for the FO that is in the left seat. More than I would give a Captain.
It’s not impossible to do. It would require a time and money investment from the company. FO/FO pairings would still happen but for the MV and LOE they would be paired up with captain sim instructor or captain seat support that was not in the OPT program.
2) OPT/OPT pairings. Not supposed to happen. Been up this road multiple times with the girls who schedule. If you find yourself in one, see me. I will fix it.
Shouldn’t happen but still does.
3) Over the top LOE scenarios? Really? You can't reason your way through a subtle loss of hydraulics? There is never going to be a checklist for all possibilities (see Ocskyguy's Rule Number 1). You need to have sufficient system understanding to reason your way through a malfunction. This is not, and never will be Delta. We hand you the keys to the jet and expect you to have enough understanding to think your way through a problem when you have little or no support from the Brain Trust at the other end of the ACARS. If you want your hand held 24/7 while you are at work, you need to be looking for another job.
There is such a disconnect between you guys and line flying. A simple hydraulic issue? That requires a completely unrealistic scenario to come to fruition? I’m not saying it’s not a good learning experience. I think it’s a great learning experience to include in one of the first look days. On a checkride, come on. LOE flights are suppose to be ASAP driven and a normal line flight. We shut down engines the flight before on the MV, we really need to be shutting down more?You’re right about one thing though, this isn’t Delta. Delta has figured out how to create a training program that takes pilots with less credentials then most of our new hires, train them, keep their metal and pax safe, and not have ridiculous OPT rates. Our job is unique, but making AQP a PITA does nothing to help us with our line flying.
4) I call TOTAL BULL******. We never force a new hire to a gate when they are not ready. EVER! If you are in a CQ or an Upgrade, it is different. Those events are covered by the CBA that your union agreed to. You go to the gate. If it is unsuccessful, you will be given extra training and another go, or two, or three. The number of pilots who have been asked to resign because of training failures in the last several years can be counted on one hand.
Say what you will, but I have first hand experience with this issue. Maybe you don’t, but others do. Finally, if you believe the CBA handcuffs you in keeping failures down, bring that issue to the union. I’m sure they’re just as interested in fixing the AQP problem as you are.
5) Equally, I call Bull******. The majority of pilots in OPT are there because of failures on a PV or MPV (neither is a PRIA reportable event). So, only us and them know. And, a great majority of them are there for a specific event, which is the V1 cut, resulting in a crash. So, I ask you, if you know deep down inside that a real V1 engine failure may kill you and the rest of the crew because you are unable to demonstrate your skill in the simulator, would you not want extra training to help you improve on your skill and hopefully, when the bad day does come you get to live?
If someone is struggling with a V1 cut it’s not happening on MV day. That’s going to be evident from their first look. Sure you’ll have an outlier here or there that nails their first look and then has a bad MV, but those are in the minority. So my question is why are they being sent to the MV instead of receiving an additional sim session to practice the maneuver? Yeah...yeah...yeah...the union and CBA prevent that...got it...
The MV and PV may not be PRIA reportable but they still are asked about on applications. You could lie about failing one of these checks but then risk losing your job if it ever gets discovered. It also doesn’t take a rocket scientist to look at a PRIA report and see that an applicant had two LOEs in a year, must of failed an MV or PV.
So no, it is a big deal if a MV or PV failure occurs as that has to be explained on ever job application.
If you are going to throw rocks, have the balls to identify yourself and take it to the people who can address your concerns. I am proud of our training department. We work damn hard at trying to keep you alive...
I just gave you some my concerns. Do you believe you handled my constructive criticism well? Well enough for me to believe that I could take that to those in charge, including yourself? I’m not hiding behind a screen name. You can probably figure out who I am with a little detective work. I’m not getting personal or bashing specific people or their personal on here like some of these trolls. I’m bringing real issues to you and you’re honestly not handling them that well. Instead of objectively looking at the training department and saying ok, these complaints might have some substance, I should investigate deeper. You instead take it as a personal attack and shut down.
Finally it’s not your job to keep us alive. That comes down to us. No scenario you give us in the box is going to prepare us for dropping a 74 into central Africa and all the headaches associated with. We learn that on the line. A difficult AQP program with a high failure rate doesn’t keep us safer out their, it does the opposite. The pilot group is so worried about busting checkrides, getting black marks on their record, and losing their job they trying to limit their exposure to the training department anyway they can.
If you take away one thing from this post, I’m not trying to throw stones, or personally attack you or anyone in the training department. You guys have a tough job. I get it. I’m trying to point out my issues with the program tha many seem to share. It’s not personal, don’t take it that way.
1) FO/FO pairings. No way around it. We have two FOs for every Captain. Mathematically impossible to get away from the FO/FO pairing. And, if you are paying attention, you should be able to perform the duties from either seat. And, (at least in my checkrides), I give some leniency for the FO that is in the left seat. More than I would give a Captain.
It’s not impossible to do. It would require a time and money investment from the company. FO/FO pairings would still happen but for the MV and LOE they would be paired up with captain sim instructor or captain seat support that was not in the OPT program.
2) OPT/OPT pairings. Not supposed to happen. Been up this road multiple times with the girls who schedule. If you find yourself in one, see me. I will fix it.
Shouldn’t happen but still does.
3) Over the top LOE scenarios? Really? You can't reason your way through a subtle loss of hydraulics? There is never going to be a checklist for all possibilities (see Ocskyguy's Rule Number 1). You need to have sufficient system understanding to reason your way through a malfunction. This is not, and never will be Delta. We hand you the keys to the jet and expect you to have enough understanding to think your way through a problem when you have little or no support from the Brain Trust at the other end of the ACARS. If you want your hand held 24/7 while you are at work, you need to be looking for another job.
There is such a disconnect between you guys and line flying. A simple hydraulic issue? That requires a completely unrealistic scenario to come to fruition? I’m not saying it’s not a good learning experience. I think it’s a great learning experience to include in one of the first look days. On a checkride, come on. LOE flights are suppose to be ASAP driven and a normal line flight. We shut down engines the flight before on the MV, we really need to be shutting down more?You’re right about one thing though, this isn’t Delta. Delta has figured out how to create a training program that takes pilots with less credentials then most of our new hires, train them, keep their metal and pax safe, and not have ridiculous OPT rates. Our job is unique, but making AQP a PITA does nothing to help us with our line flying.
4) I call TOTAL BULL******. We never force a new hire to a gate when they are not ready. EVER! If you are in a CQ or an Upgrade, it is different. Those events are covered by the CBA that your union agreed to. You go to the gate. If it is unsuccessful, you will be given extra training and another go, or two, or three. The number of pilots who have been asked to resign because of training failures in the last several years can be counted on one hand.
Say what you will, but I have first hand experience with this issue. Maybe you don’t, but others do. Finally, if you believe the CBA handcuffs you in keeping failures down, bring that issue to the union. I’m sure they’re just as interested in fixing the AQP problem as you are.
5) Equally, I call Bull******. The majority of pilots in OPT are there because of failures on a PV or MPV (neither is a PRIA reportable event). So, only us and them know. And, a great majority of them are there for a specific event, which is the V1 cut, resulting in a crash. So, I ask you, if you know deep down inside that a real V1 engine failure may kill you and the rest of the crew because you are unable to demonstrate your skill in the simulator, would you not want extra training to help you improve on your skill and hopefully, when the bad day does come you get to live?
If someone is struggling with a V1 cut it’s not happening on MV day. That’s going to be evident from their first look. Sure you’ll have an outlier here or there that nails their first look and then has a bad MV, but those are in the minority. So my question is why are they being sent to the MV instead of receiving an additional sim session to practice the maneuver? Yeah...yeah...yeah...the union and CBA prevent that...got it...
The MV and PV may not be PRIA reportable but they still are asked about on applications. You could lie about failing one of these checks but then risk losing your job if it ever gets discovered. It also doesn’t take a rocket scientist to look at a PRIA report and see that an applicant had two LOEs in a year, must of failed an MV or PV.
So no, it is a big deal if a MV or PV failure occurs as that has to be explained on ever job application.
If you are going to throw rocks, have the balls to identify yourself and take it to the people who can address your concerns. I am proud of our training department. We work damn hard at trying to keep you alive...
I just gave you some my concerns. Do you believe you handled my constructive criticism well? Well enough for me to believe that I could take that to those in charge, including yourself? I’m not hiding behind a screen name. You can probably figure out who I am with a little detective work. I’m not getting personal or bashing specific people or their personal on here like some of these trolls. I’m bringing real issues to you and you’re honestly not handling them that well. Instead of objectively looking at the training department and saying ok, these complaints might have some substance, I should investigate deeper. You instead take it as a personal attack and shut down.
Finally it’s not your job to keep us alive. That comes down to us. No scenario you give us in the box is going to prepare us for dropping a 74 into central Africa and all the headaches associated with. We learn that on the line. A difficult AQP program with a high failure rate doesn’t keep us safer out their, it does the opposite. The pilot group is so worried about busting checkrides, getting black marks on their record, and losing their job they trying to limit their exposure to the training department anyway they can.
If you take away one thing from this post, I’m not trying to throw stones, or personally attack you or anyone in the training department. You guys have a tough job. I get it. I’m trying to point out my issues with the program tha many seem to share. It’s not personal, don’t take it that way.
08-30-2018, 12:52 AM
#375
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 299
Originally Posted by No Land 3
I think both of you guys should sit down at breakfast in Yip, have a coffee and get to know each other beyond just the job and carry this discussion there. I think both of you would be pleasantly surprised.
08-30-2018, 01:20 AM
#376
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Position: Small to large - in that order.
Posts: 61
Originally Posted by mukalel
What does the second stage email entail?? I mean what does it say? Does it say the app has been selected to proceed to the next stage?
08-30-2018, 05:16 AM
#377
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Doing Just Fine
Posts: 356
OSCKYGUY you and others have brought up some very valid points. In the 12+ years I have been here I have had numerous training events with you and even flown a couple of line trips. All of them I have really enjoyed. I, as you know also, your name gets thrown out there and I stand up for you. I have always found you fair and willing to teach when required. What some fail to get is that if you come unprepared or thinking that you will give them a Santa Claus ride and they find out that's not the case they get bent out of shape. You are willing to help and teach if the other parties are willing to show effort etc., and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
With that said there is a huge disparity with what guess on in the training department and the reality of our line flying that does need to be addressed. Most, if not all of you spend 11 months in the box and only fly the line during peak which is not representative of the majority of our flying. Why not do say 2 months sim and 1 month regular line, not hand picked HNL turns but regular flying? I am sure this knowledge would help in future AQP scenarios and keep you all in the loop as it were?
Secondly, why not pull from the wealth of experience of people, specifically CA's on the line as sim instructors? I know a few that would like to do sim but heard that the higher up's do not want CA's in the sim due to pay so apart from the established regime, new hire or relatively new FO's are made sim instructors. Surely the knowledge of these seasoned line pilots would benefit training more?
The training department and the mentality of a couple of LCA's does need changing more than it has since the old "Wild West" days of anything goes in the sim. Our training and checking is well known outside of K4 and it's not known for positives!!
With that said there is a huge disparity with what guess on in the training department and the reality of our line flying that does need to be addressed. Most, if not all of you spend 11 months in the box and only fly the line during peak which is not representative of the majority of our flying. Why not do say 2 months sim and 1 month regular line, not hand picked HNL turns but regular flying? I am sure this knowledge would help in future AQP scenarios and keep you all in the loop as it were?
Secondly, why not pull from the wealth of experience of people, specifically CA's on the line as sim instructors? I know a few that would like to do sim but heard that the higher up's do not want CA's in the sim due to pay so apart from the established regime, new hire or relatively new FO's are made sim instructors. Surely the knowledge of these seasoned line pilots would benefit training more?
The training department and the mentality of a couple of LCA's does need changing more than it has since the old "Wild West" days of anything goes in the sim. Our training and checking is well known outside of K4 and it's not known for positives!!
08-30-2018, 05:50 AM
#378
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: CA 757/767
Posts: 109
Originally Posted by WhaleWrangler
Charlie's Angels!!
I hear he is going to be running the new fleet so it will be insteresting to see just how bad he will screw that up, because like the 400 I guess he will figure Boeing and the other operators have been doing it all wrong for years.
I hear he is going to be running the new fleet so it will be insteresting to see just how bad he will screw that up, because like the 400 I guess he will figure Boeing and the other operators have been doing it all wrong for years.
The training program is leaps and bounds better than it was a few years ago, and as it evolves it will continue to improve. I find it unacceptable for you to post such a derogatory statement to a public forum, and If you have an issue with this individual it would be bettered handled internally.
You are usually a voice or reason, so I have no idea what compelled you to post such a inflammatory statement, but this is wrong on every level.
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