Kalitta daily life
02-23-2023, 07:13 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 401
Feel free to DM me if you have any questions. Again, long term, I’d think twice, but if you have inside of 5-10 years left and just want to do some cool flying, not a bad gig.
FWIW, Atlas is decent as well, but I would steer clear of National. Just one man’s .02
FWIW, Atlas is decent as well, but I would steer clear of National. Just one man’s .02
02-23-2023, 07:36 AM
#12
Tuberriffic
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Hopefully the bunk
Posts: 222
I fly with a lot of folks these days who have heard of 100-hour months. That level of compensation was never guaranteed and was a result of an unforeseen and unprecedented air cargo boom. The boom is over. This is the hangover, the slowdown that follows an extended period of unsustainable activity. I fly with a lot of new people right now who spent the last few months of the boom waiting for an overtaxed training department to find them an IOE slot, only to find that their expectations of line pay are now unrealistic. These people are not happy. While I sympathize with them, it is obvious that many of them only heard what they wanted to hear before they came here, so here are some broad strokes:
Our contractual minimum pay is 64 hours. We are seeing that number much more often now than in the past five years I have worked here. We have no trip rigs, duty rigs, or daily minimum guarantee. We have a 7% direct contribution to a retirement account that is not fully vested for five years. We have zero protections for awarded lines other than days off and minimum pay. Your default minimum rest period is 11 hours for anything international, with slightly more following very long (but very common) duty assignments. We have chronic schedule slippage and rest period disruptions for which your only protection is a fatigue call. We have "home basing" within the Lower 48, Anchorage and Honolulu - anywhere else, and you're on the hook for your commute. A solid 16-day block is no longer the norm for our schedules, and was never contractually guaranteed in the first place, so multiple commutes in your work month (possibly on off days) are normal. So many new joiners are surprised to discover this that I can't help but wonder where the misinformation is coming from.
We have a very weak contract. Some pilots spent the last two years with unrealistic expectations that it would be improved after it was signed. After an extended period of bait-dangling, those expectations have now been officially dashed. It is not unreasonable to assume that the contract's existence is evidence of a weak union. The fact that it passed when it came to vote is also evidence of a weak pilot group. The fact that management has quadrupled down on not improving it in the current hiring and attrition environment is also evidence of an acrimonious labor relationship. None of those problems are easy or quick to fix, and they are not trending better. Pilots here are examining their options - often with more research than they put into their last job hunt. Many are leaving for not just "destination carriers" as was normal in the past, but for ULCCs, other ACMIs, Part 135 corporate, and yes, some even to regionals. I have no reason to believe their decisions were made with anything but a clear understanding of what kind of place Kalitta is becoming, and what it is on track to be in the future.
EDIT: As to your other targets, I would recommend Atlas over Kalitta for a new joiner, full stop. National recently received a snap-up in their payrates to match ours, added a fleet while we were dropping one, and anecdotally seem to be addressing some long-standing problems. I'd stop short of recommending them over Kalitta, but the comparison is a lot closer than it used to be. If you decide that Kalitta is currently your best option, you'll meet a lot of people who will try to help you make the most of a very demanding job. You really would be amazed at how quickly the draw of the 747 fades into the background when compared to everything else you'll be dealing with, here or at any other operator. Good luck to you, whatever you decide. I log in here pretty irregularly, but DM me as well if you have any specific questions.
Our contractual minimum pay is 64 hours. We are seeing that number much more often now than in the past five years I have worked here. We have no trip rigs, duty rigs, or daily minimum guarantee. We have a 7% direct contribution to a retirement account that is not fully vested for five years. We have zero protections for awarded lines other than days off and minimum pay. Your default minimum rest period is 11 hours for anything international, with slightly more following very long (but very common) duty assignments. We have chronic schedule slippage and rest period disruptions for which your only protection is a fatigue call. We have "home basing" within the Lower 48, Anchorage and Honolulu - anywhere else, and you're on the hook for your commute. A solid 16-day block is no longer the norm for our schedules, and was never contractually guaranteed in the first place, so multiple commutes in your work month (possibly on off days) are normal. So many new joiners are surprised to discover this that I can't help but wonder where the misinformation is coming from.
We have a very weak contract. Some pilots spent the last two years with unrealistic expectations that it would be improved after it was signed. After an extended period of bait-dangling, those expectations have now been officially dashed. It is not unreasonable to assume that the contract's existence is evidence of a weak union. The fact that it passed when it came to vote is also evidence of a weak pilot group. The fact that management has quadrupled down on not improving it in the current hiring and attrition environment is also evidence of an acrimonious labor relationship. None of those problems are easy or quick to fix, and they are not trending better. Pilots here are examining their options - often with more research than they put into their last job hunt. Many are leaving for not just "destination carriers" as was normal in the past, but for ULCCs, other ACMIs, Part 135 corporate, and yes, some even to regionals. I have no reason to believe their decisions were made with anything but a clear understanding of what kind of place Kalitta is becoming, and what it is on track to be in the future.
EDIT: As to your other targets, I would recommend Atlas over Kalitta for a new joiner, full stop. National recently received a snap-up in their payrates to match ours, added a fleet while we were dropping one, and anecdotally seem to be addressing some long-standing problems. I'd stop short of recommending them over Kalitta, but the comparison is a lot closer than it used to be. If you decide that Kalitta is currently your best option, you'll meet a lot of people who will try to help you make the most of a very demanding job. You really would be amazed at how quickly the draw of the 747 fades into the background when compared to everything else you'll be dealing with, here or at any other operator. Good luck to you, whatever you decide. I log in here pretty irregularly, but DM me as well if you have any specific questions.
Last edited by thepotato232; 02-23-2023 at 08:03 AM.
02-23-2023, 05:19 PM
#14
On Reserve
Joined APC: May 2012
Position: Rather not say
Posts: 17
Originally Posted by RyeMex
Didn’t you guys just vote to ratify this CBA pretty recently? It seems like the majority of your pilot group thought it was a pretty good deal.
02-23-2023, 05:30 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 401
Originally Posted by RyeMex
Didn’t you guys just vote to ratify this CBA pretty recently? It seems like the majority of your pilot group thought it was a pretty good deal.
02-26-2023, 03:40 PM
#16
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Position: Wide-Body Pipers
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by thepotato232
We have "home basing" within the Lower 48, Anchorage and Honolulu - anywhere else, and you're on the hook for your commute. A solid 16-day block is no longer the norm for our schedules, and was never contractually guaranteed in the first place, so multiple commutes in your work month (possibly on off days) are normal. So many new joiners are surprised to discover this that I can't help but wonder where the misinformation is coming from.
02-27-2023, 05:14 AM
#18
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 29
Most of us are now working less than a 16 day line or workmonth , mine last month was 13 days, this month is 15 days, they get you home on the last day 99% of the time... the bad thing is commuting on day zero ie the day before you start as our day 1 here starts at Midnight UTC, so 7pm EST right now ...which messes with your head, but saying that my commute this week starts at midnight UTC on day one so technically they own me then so I am not losing anything.
02-28-2023, 05:08 AM
#19
Tuberriffic
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Hopefully the bunk
Posts: 222
Numerous lines for are up for bid right now that have fewer than 16 working days - an upside of our recently lightened workload. Since our contract flatly states the pilot is on the hook for 16 days per bid period, those lines are offered at the discretion of the company, and can disappear for the same reason. That has happened already in 2021 when the new scheduling software generated several <16 day lines upon being phased in, and promptly stopped doing so after the current contract was passed and it was no longer convenient for the company to offer them.
Since the contract was mentioned - After months of cancelling meetings to negotiate the amendable 2016 contract, management offered the MEC a four year, mostly status quo offer with 2.5% YoY raises in early 2021. Management representatives boasted of a line around the block of applicants from legacies and no prospects for pilot hiring elsewhere to justify the lack of improvements. Our MEC hard-sold the contract to the pilot group as well, adopting the same narrative. The contract passed by about a three percent margin, roughly one week before it became public knowledge that all airline managers accepting COVID relief money were doing so under the condition that there be no reduction in workforce, and there was no disastrous wave of furloughs on the horizon. The MEC spent almost two years from that day making broad gestures toward LOAs and "mid-contract talks," to which management has consistently responded with clear derision, explaining as one would to a child that a contract is a legally-binding document. The official word from all parties now (as it should have been before the TA was voted on) is that the contract is the law of the land, and nobody working here should expect better. The contract becomes amendable in 2025.
Yes, all of us pilots on property right now bear some responsibility for the state of our contract - either for voting it in, for failing to mount a successful argument against it, or for voluntarily coming to work under it. Some quick cocktail-napkin math shows that a little less than 60% of the current pilot list has a hire date that made them eligible to vote for this contract, and less than half of that 60% were "yes" voters - as another poster said, turnout was not impressive. Anyone looking to come here needs to know it's a contentious, unreliable workplace with limited prospects for improvement, but the classes are still often filled with people who are under the impression that it's been all campfire singalongs since 2016. Solid blocks of days in a row, >16 day lines, and productive schedules while "on" are all things that have helped make Kalitta a reasonable place to work at one time or another, but none of those things are protected in our contract in any way. They come and go at the discretion of our management, and our labor group has had no success securing them as contractual points that an employee can count on. People considering Kalitta as an option in this hiring environment should be aware of the distinction, and not make life-changing decisions based on outdated gouge and empty promises from recruiting headhunters.
Since the contract was mentioned - After months of cancelling meetings to negotiate the amendable 2016 contract, management offered the MEC a four year, mostly status quo offer with 2.5% YoY raises in early 2021. Management representatives boasted of a line around the block of applicants from legacies and no prospects for pilot hiring elsewhere to justify the lack of improvements. Our MEC hard-sold the contract to the pilot group as well, adopting the same narrative. The contract passed by about a three percent margin, roughly one week before it became public knowledge that all airline managers accepting COVID relief money were doing so under the condition that there be no reduction in workforce, and there was no disastrous wave of furloughs on the horizon. The MEC spent almost two years from that day making broad gestures toward LOAs and "mid-contract talks," to which management has consistently responded with clear derision, explaining as one would to a child that a contract is a legally-binding document. The official word from all parties now (as it should have been before the TA was voted on) is that the contract is the law of the land, and nobody working here should expect better. The contract becomes amendable in 2025.
Yes, all of us pilots on property right now bear some responsibility for the state of our contract - either for voting it in, for failing to mount a successful argument against it, or for voluntarily coming to work under it. Some quick cocktail-napkin math shows that a little less than 60% of the current pilot list has a hire date that made them eligible to vote for this contract, and less than half of that 60% were "yes" voters - as another poster said, turnout was not impressive. Anyone looking to come here needs to know it's a contentious, unreliable workplace with limited prospects for improvement, but the classes are still often filled with people who are under the impression that it's been all campfire singalongs since 2016. Solid blocks of days in a row, >16 day lines, and productive schedules while "on" are all things that have helped make Kalitta a reasonable place to work at one time or another, but none of those things are protected in our contract in any way. They come and go at the discretion of our management, and our labor group has had no success securing them as contractual points that an employee can count on. People considering Kalitta as an option in this hiring environment should be aware of the distinction, and not make life-changing decisions based on outdated gouge and empty promises from recruiting headhunters.
02-28-2023, 06:24 AM
#20
VHR-very happily retired
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Retired
Posts: 1,409
Originally Posted by thepotato232
Numerous lines for are up for bid right now that have fewer than 16 working days - an upside of our recently lightened workload. Since our contract flatly states the pilot is on the hook for 16 days per bid period, those lines are offered at the discretion of the company, and can disappear for the same reason. That has happened already in 2021 when the new scheduling software generated several <16 day lines upon being phased in, and promptly stopped doing so after the current contract was passed and it was no longer convenient for the company to offer them.
Since the contract was mentioned - After months of cancelling meetings to negotiate the amendable 2016 contract, management offered the MEC a four year, mostly status quo offer with 2.5% YoY raises in early 2021. Management representatives boasted of a line around the block of applicants from legacies and no prospects for pilot hiring elsewhere to justify the lack of improvements. Our MEC hard-sold the contract to the pilot group as well, adopting the same narrative. The contract passed by about a three percent margin, roughly one week before it became public knowledge that all airline managers accepting COVID relief money were doing so under the condition that there be no reduction in workforce, and there was no disastrous wave of furloughs on the horizon. The MEC spent almost two years from that day making broad gestures toward LOAs and "mid-contract talks," to which management has consistently responded with clear derision, explaining as one would to a child that a contract is a legally-binding document. The official word from all parties now (as it should have been before the TA was voted on) is that the contract is the law of the land, and nobody working here should expect better. The contract becomes amendable in 2025.
Yes, all of us pilots on property right now bear some responsibility for the state of our contract - either for voting it in, for failing to mount a successful argument against it, or for voluntarily coming to work under it. Some quick cocktail-napkin math shows that a little less than 60% of the current pilot list has a hire date that made them eligible to vote for this contract, and less than half of that 60% were "yes" voters - as another poster said, turnout was not impressive. Anyone looking to come here needs to know it's a contentious, unreliable workplace with limited prospects for improvement, but the classes are still often filled with people who are under the impression that it's been all campfire singalongs since 2016. Solid blocks of days in a row, >16 day lines, and productive schedules while "on" are all things that have helped make Kalitta a reasonable place to work at one time or another, but none of those things are protected in our contract in any way. They come and go at the discretion of our management, and our labor group has had no success securing them as contractual points that an employee can count on. People considering Kalitta as an option in this hiring environment should be aware of the distinction, and not make life-changing decisions based on outdated gouge and empty promises from recruiting headhunters.
Since the contract was mentioned - After months of cancelling meetings to negotiate the amendable 2016 contract, management offered the MEC a four year, mostly status quo offer with 2.5% YoY raises in early 2021. Management representatives boasted of a line around the block of applicants from legacies and no prospects for pilot hiring elsewhere to justify the lack of improvements. Our MEC hard-sold the contract to the pilot group as well, adopting the same narrative. The contract passed by about a three percent margin, roughly one week before it became public knowledge that all airline managers accepting COVID relief money were doing so under the condition that there be no reduction in workforce, and there was no disastrous wave of furloughs on the horizon. The MEC spent almost two years from that day making broad gestures toward LOAs and "mid-contract talks," to which management has consistently responded with clear derision, explaining as one would to a child that a contract is a legally-binding document. The official word from all parties now (as it should have been before the TA was voted on) is that the contract is the law of the land, and nobody working here should expect better. The contract becomes amendable in 2025.
Yes, all of us pilots on property right now bear some responsibility for the state of our contract - either for voting it in, for failing to mount a successful argument against it, or for voluntarily coming to work under it. Some quick cocktail-napkin math shows that a little less than 60% of the current pilot list has a hire date that made them eligible to vote for this contract, and less than half of that 60% were "yes" voters - as another poster said, turnout was not impressive. Anyone looking to come here needs to know it's a contentious, unreliable workplace with limited prospects for improvement, but the classes are still often filled with people who are under the impression that it's been all campfire singalongs since 2016. Solid blocks of days in a row, >16 day lines, and productive schedules while "on" are all things that have helped make Kalitta a reasonable place to work at one time or another, but none of those things are protected in our contract in any way. They come and go at the discretion of our management, and our labor group has had no success securing them as contractual points that an employee can count on. People considering Kalitta as an option in this hiring environment should be aware of the distinction, and not make life-changing decisions based on outdated gouge and empty promises from recruiting headhunters.
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