Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. Join our community today and start interacting with existing members. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free.


User Tag List

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-23-2018, 09:05 AM   #21  
Self Employed.
 
SkyHigh's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,111
Default Better Dreams

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBurke View Post
Your "dream job" isn't going to come up. You've discussed your past far too much here, such that it's a well known quantity. You walked away with no significant experience, and your dream job requires just one thing: you stick with it. You didn't. You quit.

Your dream job is available any time; all you have to is...show up.
John,

You think you know a lot about me. I did not quit. I was laid off with a young family to support during a time when pilots were not worth very much. As a result, I discovered success outside of aviation. I do not share your assessment of my experience. I worked hard as a pilot for 18 years before I was laid off. During that time I held a variety of meaningful positions that span charter, corporate, and airline.

Conditions are much better now in aviation, however, there are opportunities elsewhere too. Aviation is facing steep competition from many industries. I am glad that holding the course is working out for you. I had a different path presented to me and I am very thankful as to how it worked out.

I wish I was provided with a way to keep my airline dream alive without causing more harm to my family and finances but I could not. I am not going to get in line at an airline ever again unless it is for a situation that is near perfect for me. Anything less than that and I have better things to do.

Even under the best conditions life as an airline pilot is far from easy. The career is not above being evaluated. The statistics bare out that plenty abandon aviation at all ages. There are other ways to earn a living that might be better for some. Why do you get so upset at a differing view? How is my contribution here such a threat to you?

SkyHigh
SkyHigh is offline  
Old 11-23-2018, 12:16 PM   #22  
Disinterested Third Party
 
JohnBurke's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,680
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHigh View Post
John,

You think you know a lot about me. I did not quit.
I know a hell of a lot about you, and yes, you did quit. You've made that crystal clear here, dozens of times, in your pedantic mission to disparage the industry and all who are in it. You're the kid that couldn't make it, quit, and took your ball to leave, then came back to the field and cried bloody murder for years on end, and you're still here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHigh View Post
John,
As a result, I discovered success outside of aviation.
No, you didn't. You've got a Cessna 150 and an overinflated sense of self. You've banged on the industry to no end, winging and whining about the inability to "live like a king," and have attempted to wax poetic (something you'll never do) about the decay of the industry at large. If you could spit, you'd have done so; your central theme is that airline pilots are supposed to live like kings, but live like paupers, and you left to find the path that could never be had in aviation. I ask you again, are you living like a king?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHigh View Post
I do not share your assessment of my experience.
Of course not. You failed. You don't see it that way. Anybody that knows your history, as you've vomited it up here in public time and time again, during your vitriol against professional aviation, knows all too well. You've been revealed, mate. You're the one that did it.

Too bad you can't read your own press.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHigh View Post
During that time I held a variety of meaningful positions that span charter, corporate, and airline.
You've tried to stand by 10 years in the past...perhaps you're adding up current years and trying to call them your time in aviation too. Who knows? It's clear from your postings, especially your whip-saw flipping between walking away and begging for work at entry level places, that your experience in aviation was minimal and inconsequential. You've plastered this site with your resume before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHigh View Post
I am not going to get in line at an airline ever again unless it is for a situation that is near perfect for me. Anything less than that and I have better things to do.
Anything less than perfect isn't in your bailywick, as you don't have the chops for it. You lack the experience, are not remotely current, and your attitude has proven so poor as to nearly bar you from the industry to boot.

Not long ago I listened to a senior FO at a freight operator opine that the company needed to move him to their largest aircraft and make him a captain. He'd failed to upgrade and was considered by others in the position to know, not upgradeable, due to his attitude. He didn't see it that way. Only the best and the biggest for him...though everyone else had been promoted around him, and his position as the senior FO wasn't by choice.

So long as you think you have what it takes to be worth hiring into that perfect job, you'll go nowhere; you have to go put in your dues and earn that position. It's not hard to do, of course. All you are required to do is show up...but you quit, so no dream job for you. Dream jobs don't usually go to those who quit. Of course, you don't see it that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHigh View Post
Even under the best conditions life as an airline pilot is far from easy.
How would you know?

You wouldn't, really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHigh View Post
The statistics bare out that plenty abandon aviation at all ages. There are other ways to earn a living that might be better for some. Why do you get so upset at a differing view? How is my contribution here such a threat to you?
https://grammarist.com/spelling/bare-bear/

You're no threat to anyone. Not remotely so.

Your "differing view" has never been one of contribution: your purpose here has always been to tear down the industry, and your statements are wild, unsupportable crazy ideas with statistics that are untrue, founded on lies, and filled with accusations, paranoia, and a twisted view of both the past and future.

You come here making statements that are blatant lies, and you've been called out again and again.

So long as you keep coming back to do the same, you may expect no different than what you've always received from a broad range of posters, myself included. You're a spade, and will be called as such.
JohnBurke is offline  
Old 11-24-2018, 08:47 AM   #23  
Line Holder
 
FullFlaps's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 42
Default

Everyone's journey is different. I left finance to pursue aviation (the total opposite of your experience). Once I get to the airlines maybe I'll form a small firm on the side but I realized what I wanted in life and the kind of people I want around me. Money
prestige power isn't everything . Find what works for you and its different for everyone.

I worked in finance before and after the crash. After the crash pilots were hurting but finance was abysmal. Guys with PhD's (literally rocket scientists) taking entry level jobs. Desks that were 20 people cut down to 2. It really was just survival by any means necessary back then.

I ended up starting my own firm which went well then decided to go in house at a larger firm. Moved around at a few firms climbed to senior roles at a primary (finance lingo for one of the big boy banks). What I realized is that senior management at many of the larger financial institutions today were not the best just the most ruthless / dishonest / connected or lucky. People were literally sabotaging each other to get ahead, even today. Many heads of very large institutions don't really understand finance today, they've just created and climbed in a beauracracy that allows it.

I took a look at life and what I wanted and while I haven't experienced it as yet I think QOL as an airline pilot is far better than in corporate America. This is subjective but I'd rather have a dense schedule with a max number of hours per month or year and defined days off.

QOL in finance as you climb gets worse and worse. My average work week was 80 to 100 hours per week. When it's busy there have been stretches where I literally live on the trading floor or in an office for 2 week stretches. Once I have a line if I need more money I'll find or create a side hustle. Even as a wide body captain at a major I'll never make what I was making before but hey I'm ok with that. The are other perks, I'll get to watch sunrises at FL350 every morning.

Happiness is very subjective, glad you found yours. Side bar the fact you're writing this or those articles something inside of you misses flying. Hope you make it big time enough to but a gulfstream or citation and get to fly yourself around! Cheers.
FullFlaps is offline  
Old 11-24-2018, 10:30 AM   #24  
Self Employed.
 
SkyHigh's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,111
Default Hi Josh

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenGooseGuy View Post
I appreciate your helpful commentary.

Being out of sync is a good way to describe it. It seemed like while flying, everyone was always trying to get home, but it was an endless negotiation of trying to minimize life disruption and lost time.

Another interesting point you make is with earnings. Many pilots I flew with argued that no job had the earnings potential of an airline career, but there are many opportunities that have a higher income potential because they aren't capped by seniority pay scales of an hourly trade job.

The only area I differ is that I don't miss the flying career. While I enjoyed the camaraderie, coming back to the real world felt to me like returning from being deployed in the military. I've made phenomenal friends in my new workplaces, and the work itself has been more challenging and fulfilling without those level-off career points in the airline where I'd start feeling bored and stale.

It sounds like you were forced out, while I voluntarily left after a solid 6+ years. If I had to guess, that might be part of the reason you're still torn between careers?
Josh,

I too flew for the airlines for six awful years. My last part 121 position was as a 757 first officer. During that time we had to live places we did not wish, lives we did not like for low wages below that of a mailman. On my last day after the company shut down, I was elated and sad.

It seems that an aviation career is closer to a religion than a rationally considered career option. One's association with their aviation persona often exceeds the obvious benefits of a career in the real world. Aviation demands a massive investment in cash, personal risk, low wage years of experience building and lifestyle corruption. It seems that the airlines are well aware of this phenomenon and are eager to exploit it. Until recently they enjoyed a positive pressure feed of zealots who gleefully put themselves deeply in debt for a career that holds a thin promise of ever being able to recover the investment. All these things are obvious to those who care to look.

I have proven to myself many times over that the best path for my family, finances, and lifestyle is through my pursuits outside aviation, so I hold the course. As a business owner, I command my days and most everything I touch or work on. Today I sit in a back office while the staff takes on the heavy lifting of the operation. I own a plane and fly as a corporate pilot and for fun.

However, I still think about my airline dream. As a regional pilot, I noticed that those who entered the career already retired were the happiest. The airlines are best experienced as a working hobby than as the entirety of one's financial support network. It would be fun to go back in that capacity after the kids are grown, the house is paid off and retirement in the bank.


SkyHigh
SkyHigh is offline  
Old 11-24-2018, 10:37 AM   #25  
Challenge Accepted Five
 
BoilerUP's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,833
Default

SkyHigh,

What airline did you fly the 757 for?
BoilerUP is online now  
Old 11-24-2018, 10:47 AM   #26  
Self Employed.
 
SkyHigh's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,111
Default Oh John

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBurke View Post
I know a hell of a lot about you, and yes, you did quit. You've made that crystal clear here, dozens of times, in your pedantic mission to disparage the industry and all who are in it. You're the kid that couldn't make it, quit, and took your ball to leave, then came back to the field and cried bloody murder for years on end, and you're still here.



No, you didn't. You've got a Cessna 150 and an overinflated sense of self. You've banged on the industry to no end, winging and whining about the inability to "live like a king," and have attempted to wax poetic (something you'll never do) about the decay of the industry at large. If you could spit, you'd have done so; your central theme is that airline pilots are supposed to live like kings, but live like paupers, and you left to find the path that could never be had in aviation. I ask you again, are you living like a king?



Of course not. You failed. You don't see it that way. Anybody that knows your history, as you've vomited it up here in public time and time again, during your vitriol against professional aviation, knows all too well. You've been revealed, mate. You're the one that did it.

Too bad you can't read your own press.



You've tried to stand by 10 years in the past...perhaps you're adding up current years and trying to call them your time in aviation too. Who knows? It's clear from your postings, especially your whip-saw flipping between walking away and begging for work at entry level places, that your experience in aviation was minimal and inconsequential. You've plastered this site with your resume before.



Anything less than perfect isn't in your bailywick, as you don't have the chops for it. You lack the experience, are not remotely current, and your attitude has proven so poor as to nearly bar you from the industry to boot.

Not long ago I listened to a senior FO at a freight operator opine that the company needed to move him to their largest aircraft and make him a captain. He'd failed to upgrade and was considered by others in the position to know, not upgradeable, due to his attitude. He didn't see it that way. Only the best and the biggest for him...though everyone else had been promoted around him, and his position as the senior FO wasn't by choice.

So long as you think you have what it takes to be worth hiring into that perfect job, you'll go nowhere; you have to go put in your dues and earn that position. It's not hard to do, of course. All you are required to do is show up...but you quit, so no dream job for you. Dream jobs don't usually go to those who quit. Of course, you don't see it that way.



How would you know?

You wouldn't, really.



https://grammarist.com/spelling/bare-bear/

You're no threat to anyone. Not remotely so.

Your "differing view" has never been one of contribution: your purpose here has always been to tear down the industry, and your statements are wild, unsupportable crazy ideas with statistics that are untrue, founded on lies, and filled with accusations, paranoia, and a twisted view of both the past and future.

You come here making statements that are blatant lies, and you've been called out again and again.

So long as you keep coming back to do the same, you may expect no different than what you've always received from a broad range of posters, myself included. You're a spade, and will be called as such.
John,

I have missed you.

Why should we accept anything less than what we feel is needed from a career? There is a difference between "could" and "should". Holding the course often is a virtue but also can lead to a life of futility.

I am very comfortable with the efforts I made in aviation. However, I am certain that no matter what you will not accept anything less than going down with the ship. I do not share in that philosophy.

If this were a completely fair forum we would pull all your life choices into the light so that we could take measure of the results of all your strict decisions. I do not doubt that your approach would prove successful in the airlines. My examination, however, is in regards to what is best for one life.

I agree that if a person made every choice in relation to what is best for their airline career an HR department would recognize the level of self-destruction and sacrifice as proof of ones deep desire for the career. My question is not if one "could" make a career out of the airlines but rather if they "should".

In that, I believe that we differ. I choose my family, frends, and finances over my airline dream. We should not have to disregard what truly matters in life to make this career work.

Skyhigh
SkyHigh is offline  
Old 11-24-2018, 10:53 AM   #27  
Self Employed.
 
SkyHigh's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,111
Default Airline

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoilerUP View Post
SkyHigh,

What airline did you fly the 757 for?
It was a long time ago. A common strategy at the time was to take a position at a start-up airline that flew larger jets. The philosophy was that upgrade in a Boeing would be more attractive to a legacy than as a Brazilia Captain. In addition, there were complications in transitioning from a regional to the parent legacy. Switching to a completely different company eliminated this contingency creating a clear path to the legacy.

It almost worked. 9-11 changed the game.

Skyhigh
SkyHigh is offline  
Old 11-24-2018, 12:51 PM   #28  
Disinterested Third Party
 
JohnBurke's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,680
Default

Leaves you wondering if he will answer the question, or whether he can actually answer the question, doesn't it?
JohnBurke is offline  
Old 11-24-2018, 02:51 PM   #29  
Challenge Accepted Five
 
BoilerUP's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,833
Default Why I Left a Pilot Career Worth $8.3 Million

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHigh View Post
It was a long time ago.
...so what was the airline’s name you flew the 757 for, again?
BoilerUP is online now  
Old 11-24-2018, 03:16 PM   #30  
Gets Weekends Off
 
velosnow's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,045
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHigh View Post
To what end does it serve a pilot to have Tuesday and Wednesday off when friends and family are at work or school? It is easy to lose track of friends, hobbies, and family with an airline schedule.
Just wanted to touch on this point, it serves me extremely well as few of our friends have 9-5 jobs and all of the recreating we do is madness on the weekends. Ain’t no lift lines or busy trails on Tuesday! Plus we don’t have kids sooo there’s that.

Overall interesting conversation as the career can obviosuly have different impact for many folks. Those that get out have a whole different set of issues to contend with. I dig not being beholden to answering emails, phone calls, etc. on my time off that most jobs come with if you make any sort of decent money. I see my 9-5 friends busting their arse 60+ hours a week then sit in ski traffic on the weekends, dodge Jerry on the mountain and start over again on Monday. Not worth it to me.

Granted I worked Turkey Day this year, but I’m sitting in Beijing now having a had a fun couple of days exploring with a good crew and will head home for at least 9 days off with belated Friendsgiving followed by fresh tracks the rest of the week. Wouldn’t trade it personally.

Last edited by velosnow; 11-24-2018 at 03:29 PM.
velosnow is offline  
 
 
 

 
Post Reply

Tags
advice, blog, career, finance, job
 



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SWA 4Q14 results and 2014 Yearly results Thunder1 Major 5 01-24-2015 06:59 AM
I left SWA and have had a successful career OscartheGrouch Major 73 12-27-2013 09:45 PM
United Q1 2011 Results EWRflyr United 12 04-22-2011 06:56 PM
Anyone left flying for FAA/another career? HIREME Leaving the Career 13 02-21-2010 07:11 PM
AA 231 million profit for the year AAflyer Major 24 01-23-2007 12:39 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:41 AM.