DLax85

Spot on Al!

It's called "Organic Chemistry" --- the "weed out" course of most pre-med majors during their sophmore year of college.

The Juice

I love how pilots always say they "should have been a doctor," assuming that every pilot has the ability and apitude to be a doctor.

I could not do the schooling..too hard and too long

Jetjok

Interesting topic, given the fact that pilots have been complaining for years about "shrinkage" in their pay and benefits. If you think you've taken it in the shorts, you need to take a further look at the medical profession, specifically Medical Doctors. I'd wager an adult beverage that over the past 15 years, they've taken a larger hit than we have. As well, when someone like 1215Fuzz (or you or I for that matter) visits a doctors office, the charge that is billed, has all the other expenses associated with that office, built in. Charges such as staff, rent, utilities, non-reusable materials, hazardous waste removal fees, office insurance, malpractice insurance, etc, etc. To make matters worse (for the Doctors), they have to submit to our insurance companies, who have negotiated with the doctors, prices for given procedures. So maybe that office visit really cost $300, but because of the doctor-insurance company relationship, the doctor only charged $260. Now if the insurance pays the full $260, you're free and clear, but if they don't, then you're on the hook for the additional $40, above and beyond your deductible.

Just for reference, here's a link to physician salaries. I think you'll be quite surprised, as most of our senior pilots make that or more. Physician Salaries, Average Physician Salary, Doctor Salary - PayScale

JJ

Joachim

Thats the MEDIAN salary. The median salary for Pilots is less than half of that!

1215fuzz

Sorry.... for those that get so wrapped around the axle. I should have defined the "tic" in the subject.

"tic" = Tongue In Cheek

Tongue-in-cheek is a term used to refer to humor in which a statement, or an entire fictional work, is not meant to be taken seriously, but its sarcasm is subtle.

forgot to bid

You're spot on. Doctor retention is becoming a major problem and it is much worse then us. Could really get worse in the years to come. Look at the obgyn segment of their profession alone.

As far as that salary survey it reminds me when you see the same surveys with airline pilots. You'd be under the impression we all make $150,000 a year. What screws up numbers like this (when you're talking about airline pilots) you've got like 11,000 AMR pilots and 2,700 AE pilots. If you come up with the median salaries of the combined group the numbers would make you think its a high paying job when in reality its a decade at low pay to get a starting job at higher pay.
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I agree with some of the other posts, it sucks there are pilots willing to fly for nothing because they love what they do. Well, not actually nothing, there are places in this industry that pay well even if it is half of what it used to be or worth putting up with the bad to one day get to the good.

But that is beside the point, really all of these pilots who are here because they enjoy it are screwing the rest of us who are only here for the money and out of our civic duty to provide our awesome piloting skills to the well being of the traveling public. I think if you like being an airline pilot you ought to quit. Especially if you are senior to me.
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FWIW, I did quit the airline industry for 2+ years after 6 years 121. I pulled the trigger. And where am I now? I'm back. Saw the other side and I swear there is nothing better than this side as long as you're at a good place and you like being there.

Jetjok

Yes, it might be the median salary, but it's the starting point from which all expenses that I outlined, and those that I probably don't even know about, are subtracted. Whereas the salary that we are paid (excluding taxes, because both doctors and airline pilots pay them) really has very little coming out of it. So another way of looking at it is if a doctors' annual salary is $200k, we need to look at that as gross, before expenses. Our salary has virtually nothing taken out.

As well, the amount of education that doctors require, plus the amount of time they spend in medical school, plus the time in specialty school, plus the time spent interning, plus the cost of setting up a practice, all suggest that these guys are some of the worlds most highly skilled workers. Personally, I have no problem paying a cardiac surgeon $6000 for 7 hours work, because that's exactly what I did when I had open heart surgery with 5 bypasses. Just for reference, my total hospital bill, for all services rendered by the hospital and its staff was over $100k. Thank goodness for medical insurance.

JJ

Senior Skipper

That, in my opinion is the MAIN reason. It's all supply and demand. Doctors control the supply, and so by keeping the supply at a reasonable level, they ensure they can get paid whatever they like.

Are doctors smarter than pilots? I think not. I've spent my share of time around them and their brains aren't any bigger.

After medical school, doctors must apply to residency programs for the specialty in which they hope to practice. There are residency programs for orthopedic surgery, dermatology, internal medicine etc. Each year, thousands of US graduates compete for positions in the various programs. Each year, hundreds of internationally trained applicants also apply for these same positions AND OFFER TO WORK FOR FREE. The "work for free" mentality is not limited to aviation. The diffeence in medicine is that the docs don't sit back and let the government stipulate their professional requirements. If that were so, anybody would be able to be a doctor and enter the workforce.

Isn't it time that pilots take control of the profession? As pilots, we let others determine who joins our ranks. Isn't that fundamentally wrong, especially since flying is a privilege and not a right? Why should we have to be convincing people that places "pay to fly" schemes do more harm than good? If we had our own professional body, we could regulate the type of person who enters the profession, and have a professional disciplinary body.

Being a fresh CPL, there isn't much I can do but educate people on how some practices hurt the profession, but rest assured that as I move up, I'll keep trying to better the profession.

Jetjok

You should have stopped writing after the above sentence, because once anyone reads that, they're pretty much done with your argument. It's quite obvious that you have absolutely no idea about the medical profession in general, and more specifically, doctors.

And judging from your quote below:
It's plain to see that you have no idea how the piloting profession works either. However, that said, I do agree with you in that..... no, wait. There's nothing you said that I can agree with. Each paragraph you wrote, with the exception of your last, is really quite flawed, both in your "facts" as well as your logic.

JJ

SkyHigh

I think we all can agree that if it was more common to make it to the major of your choice that the profession would be quite survivable. Under the current circumstances however the odds are fairly long.

People are willing to work for free anymore. In my generation it was not a crime to discuss aviation in relation to how much it paid. Today it is sacrilegious to suggest that you are a pilot for anything less than the satisfaction that flying gives.

A lot of a modern pilots compensation comes from the joy of being a pilot. I need to be paid in cash.

Skyhigh