SkyHigh

I took the following paragraph from the link pasted below. In the following quote Jeff Skiles mentions how he had to work both his airline job and a side job as a contractor to make ends meet. Essentially 7 days a week. This is what we have come to. The whole article is good.

"In Skiles testimony in front on Congress, those listening received a message few outside the realms of aviation families are aware of. Skiles testified that the economic turmoil facing the airline industry over the last several years has hit pilots hard. His salary has been reduced in half, and he’s lost his pension. “Many pilots like Captain Sullenberger and myself have had to split their focus from the airline piloting profession and develop alternative businesses or careers,” Skiles said. “I myself am a general contractor. For the last 6 years, I have worked 7 days a week between my two jobs just to maintain a middle class standard of living.” Skiles is a veteran aviator with 26 years of service with US Air."

Review of Miracle on the Hudson Pilot Jeffrey Skiles Testimony before Congress | Letter from US Airlines


26 years with USAir and he is still an FO. YUK !!

Skyhigh

SkyHigh

The economic downturn as of late will be a slap in the face for this country. We all were raised on the belief that we can do whatever we want for a profession. Follow your heart was the consensus. As a result we have an overabundance of aviation, anthropology and art majors. We thought that the company and the government will take care of us in retirement.

That idea is being shattered as we speak. A career needs to provide a good living that will last us though retirement. Old paradigms are being crushed. Proven career paths are not valid anymore. Once stalwart top tier professions are now going into the discard pile. The world has changed. New careers will be the well paid envy. Either you change with it or be rolled over.

Companies have learned that pilots will work for free. Grandma's inheritance might pay for training and regional airline wages might support a single guy in a one bedroom apartment but it is not enough to build a full middle class life and retirement on.

I believe that the next generation will be comprised of more engineering and business graduates and fewer aviation and exercise science degrees. The reality is that we all need to make a living. Having fun does not trump providing for your family.

Skyhigh

HercDriver130

hum....and the post office just announced they would like to close 250 sorting centers and layoff an additional 28,000 employees.... NOW>

that said, you write a lot with out saying much at all. The only real numbers you quoted were starting salaries in the 40-60k range. You never mention time off, types of schedules etc. The question was WHAT would YOU have to have to be in this industry. What I believe is this, No amount of money, no schedule (realistic anyway) etc, would ever be enough for you. I say that because on many occasions you mention YOU want control, YOU want to be home all the time, YOU want to make a small fortune. I do not question your love of flying, what I question is your view of the industry that somehow 30 years ago it was all a great panacea where everyone made millions and furloughs and company closings never happened and everybody made it big at the airlines. I will concede that the industry is different now than it was in the 60s 70s or even the early 80s, but the fact is even those years where not necessarily kind to the majority of pilots, many spent years on furlough just as today, many spent more than half their career sitting sideways, only to finally move to the left seat during the last 5 years or so of their career. Certainly it is different, but lets not let you blow smoke up our collective butts and let people believe that those years where great for everyone or even the majority. I submit to you that this business has always only let a very few to the "top"....thats just life.

I think most of us would agree with you that this industry is fraught with pitfalls I just contend that it always has been.

psst....you are right, providing for one's family should trump having fun, I would also contend that if you had a family that you couldn't adequately provide for in your current job situation that was irresponsible.

SkyHigh

HercDriver130,

My personal standards are clear and have been stated here before.

I have to be able to drive to my base within 2 hours of where I currently live and earn at least 60 to 80K with increases to 100K plus within three years. However I would accept a west coast commute and less pay for the first year. After that on schedule. Domestic only. Service area limited to north america. No long haul. A real retirement plan and good benefits that are fully paid by the company.

If a start up came to Seattle with the promise of a quick trip up the seniority list I am there. And of course if Alaska Airlines ever called I would come running regardless of the base or pay.

Keep in mind that I have already incurred the opportunity cost of my initial training, education and many wasted years of experience building. If I were starting today as a 20 year old there is no amount of money that would make it worth while to go through all that again.

As you mentioned I value my days and time at home. If I am going to sell them to an employer it had better be for something considerable.

I am not blowing smoke. Jeff Skiles testified that he has lost half his salary and his entire pension.

Skyhigh

SkyHigh

If you don't believe me how about some of the most noteworthy airline pilots of our time?

Guys like:

Les Abend of Flying Magazine, AA Captain.

Sully Sullenburger Hero of the hudson and USAir captain.

Jeff Skiles also hero of the hudson and USAir FO.

Barry Schiff retired TWA captain and aviation writer.

After decades in the industry they all have written articles or testified to congress that they do not recommend an airline career.

Skyhigh

SkyHigh

Again, I would like to state that my estimations are assessed from the perspective of the 20 year old who is starting today and the opportunity cost of the profession they face.

If you are a 45 year old 747 first officer who already has a job you only have 15 years or so left in the profession anyway by all means keep with it. You have already paid the high price and have few options left to you anyway. Unless you have something else going on you might as well see it through.

Young guys however could have as much as 40 years ahead. It is unlikely that they will see much of anything positive. They are the ones who have something to loose.

Skyhigh

Molon Labe

Sky High, You are one of the true breaths of fresh air around here.....You do see things for what the are...All too many wish only to "reinterpret the stressors" to use sensitive new age terminology....Which really means sugar coat the turd....I have had a life in this industry and had a much better ride than most(have been a legacy 747 Captain for 14 years and am 53) and when you see how fragile the career is, how little transferability exists and the dollar cost of entry/lost opportunity income years....offset by the current pay rates, there is little to truly justify a career in this business if one is young enough to leave...Keep up the good posts!

SkyHigh

Thanks Molon Labe !

It is not easy being me here on APC. My positions are not popular. I cut against the grain of a lot of wishful thinking. I gets tiresome at times. Your support and the backing I have received from others here is greatly appreciated.

Skyhigh

pilotca86

It's pretty easy. If you're under 30, I would go back to school and get an MBA or some other graduate degree. If you're over 30 and aren't employed by WN, FE or UPS. You too need to take stock of your career.

Airline flying is not a job or an adventure. I don't really know what to say anymore. I told all three of my kids to stay away from it. Spending 100 nights a year in hotels got old 20 years ago. I would not have pursued this career had I known when I was 21 what I know now.

satpak77

I second that notion. My opinion is if you are not "in place" at a major carrier by age 40, 45, you need to stop chasing that dream and switch gears. 45 is the new 55. And if you don't get "pending interview indicators" by age 37, 38, you need to be planning Plan-B.

If you are military pilot, stay in and get that retirement. With the economy, etc situation, you can't just throw that retirement and medical package away. Just stay.

If you are at a solid corporate department, or a senior senior regional guy (senior RJ captain at Eagle, etc), and are age 45, I would just stay there due to seniority, job security, etc stuff.

I would never recommend a professional pilot job to a young person (high school or younger) today. Instead go to a stable, well paying job such as Accounting, Computers, Nursing/Medical, and realize a stable 75K+ job with paychecks that don't bounce and you get X-Mas and all weekends off is better than chasing a 150K job (while making 25K in-the-chase) that may never materialize.

The days of flying heavy iron to Europe, having 15 days off, driving your Porsche, and hot stews at all stops are over. Sorry Kit Darby, you sold that dream to alot of folks but not to this one.

Become a Physicians Assistant, fly your Mooney, and take your hot nurses with you. You will be much happier.

My 2 cents