JohnBurke

Martyrdom all the way. "Have to go down with the ship."

There you go again with "lured" into the business (it wasn't remotely close to six figures if you learned to fly when you say you did). Your entire family working pilots, and yet you were "lured," as a lamb to the slaughter? Hardly.

It's a damn career. It's not a slaughter.

I know a lot of pilots, being a career one, myself. I don't know any, personally, that had a "safety net" or a "sponsorship." You often speak of these "trust fund kids" as though they're a common thing. I recall meeting one person when I instructed full time who said he had money from a trust. One. Such as most decidedly NOT the makeup of the industry, and represents a fringe sliver of those who have sought flight training or a career.

You didn't "go down with the ship." The ship never went down. You jumped overboard. Big, BIG difference.

Youthful views?

No.

Truthful.


Perhaps that's why your'e confused.

flynavyj

I don't think it's crazy at all...I'm a federal worker (not paid as well as some controllers, but still GS-13 pay, not bad) good retirement, etc...and we've lost plenty of folks back to the airlines.

We only lost one employee back to the regional airlines, plenty to mainline (mostly American) and a couple to 135 type operators. Each were former airline pilots, and they missed the lifestyle. I miss the lifestyle too, but cant afford to make the jump (wife and family). If I can stick to the plan, and pay down our debts over the next few years while keeping myself current, I might have some other options. But even still, knowing that I'd be putting back on my kid's college savings, or my retirement, I'd still be leery.

If I was single, I'd jump at it...and if I had an opportunity to go straight to a major I'd jump at that too...but there's no REAL desire to go back to $20k/year.

SkyHigh

I am the only guy who was a professional pilot. The rest of my family held real jobs.

"Go down with the ship"; indeed, it is difficult to start over in a different career. There is a point of no return in aviation. Pilot experience does not easily transfer to other professions. Once one becomes branded as a pilot they become unemployable in outside careers. As soon as the wife and kids come most must ride it out for better or worse.

Skyhigh

USMCFLYR

I always love it when you spew this trash.
ABSOLUTE idiotic drivel.

If anyone else reading this actually believes this then you need to take a course on how to sell yourselves to potential employers in a more effective manner.
Look at the tenets of CRM and see how they can be applied to the world outside of aviation and you'll have all the answers you need.

This is one of the stupidest things you try and spread on the forums Sky.

JamesNoBrakes

Here's one thing I know, I'd rather be flying along in my cub through a valley in the spring choosing to turn left or right, rather than cruising at FL360 being told which way to go with no option to change my destination. There are so many challenges in aviation outside of being an airline pilot. If one wishes, they should be able to find all the satisfaction and challenge they could ever want, without ever having to taxi to a jetbridge...

PerfInit

^^^^THIS ^^^^^

100% Agree, Well Said!!!

SkyHigh

We have gone over this many times before. You are a military officer with a GS rating. Your success is largely attached to those credentials and not to your pilot experience.

My peers and I have experienced it first hand. I am glad for you that you have not had to hit the street and search for a job in the private sector but it is not a benefit at all to a bank or most other businesses to be a pilot and have nothing else on the resume. Employers look at you as if you have two heads. My home town is full of business owners who were professional pilots because they could not find a decent job in the outside world with a pilots resume. Might as well be a business owner. It is just as hard to find a job.

Walk a mile in civilian shoes. It is not that great.

Skyhigh

USMCFLYR

That is a cop out response and typical of your over-exaggeration.

JohnBurke

You've recently told us (and have told us on many occasions) that "my father. brother, grandfather and father in law are or were all pilots." Now you're telling us that none of them made their living as pilots...so they were what? Private pilots? You've thrown out the reference on numerous occasions, inferring that your family was one of professional aviators, and now we learn this has always been a lie.

We are not surprised, nor amused. We are unimpressed, but this is what you do, don't you? You tell lies.

Perhaps you tell them so often that you believe them, but clearly you tell them enough that you can't remember which ones you've told, because the inconsistencies are frequently revealed. Here again, we see that you've lied.

You elected to "start over," though when you say "in a different career," your idea of a career and other's ideas are not at all the same. You've often told us about your 20 year career, but recently we've shown that your numbers do NOT add up. You admitted that much of your professional pilot "career" years were times when you didn't even hold a commercial pilot certificate, let alone actually work as a pilot, and your story has been shown to have no credibility. Career? Start over? You never really started, and when you walked away, it was a choice. There was no ship with which to go down.

I've done a lot of things outside of aviation when necessary, either as supplementary income, my own ventures, temporary work, or as full time employment. The most common response from an employer, when interviewed, upon viewing my aviation experience and background? "You may be overqualified for this position. Are you sure you want to work here?" This without a degree.

What does experience as a professional aviator have to do with other work? Aside from a proven and vetted background that demonstrates a high degree of responsibility operating in a complex environment, handing multiple operations at once, and the entrustment by employers with the company image and liability in the operation of hundred-million dollar equipment with dozens or hundreds of lives dependent on every move? The ability to take on new, highly complex projects and to adapt to and understand systems and concepts in short periods of time; this isn't a desirable thing for an employer? We can add up our jobs sometime if you really want to play who's done the most in and out of aviation, but I know you haven't done much in aviation. I don't think you've looked that hard, or worked that much outside of aviation, either.

You're either lying (again), or have very little exposure to seeking employment outside of aviation, else you wouldn't be able to (honestly) say that "Once one becomes branded as a pilot they become unemployable in outside careers." Which is it, then? Inexperienced enough to be ignorant of just how untrue your statement is, or are you simply lying like you did about your family and your "career?"

It's important to show you in these lies, you see, because they're the basis of your claims and your missionary work as you struggle to convince prospective pilots that the career is not for them. It's important to understand that the basis of your claims, and what emerges is that clearly you have no leg upon which to stand. You're a con artist, though not a very good one; your mission is to con people out of their careers? Perhaps you get a laugh out of it, but your real currency is one of martyrdom.

Unflatteringly, some simply call it "attention *****," one who repeatedly tells the world his problems to garner sympathy. There's the root of your currency. It would be a lot easier to be sympathetic if it weren't all built on a lie.

Some of us have walked many such miles and know your lies.

Your home tow is "full of business owners who professional pilots," just like your entire family was made up of professional aviators who never actually worked as aviators? Now your world has a whole town of them, does it?

I know a lot of professional pilots who have their own businesses. I have a friend who's currently flying a 747 internationally; his passion is trucking and he owns a trucking business, and when he's not in the field flying, he can often be found in a truck, or managing the company. He loves to drive.

I have another friend who flies for a living, but also owns several aircraft that he employs doing advanced unusual attitude flight training and "combat simulation" games (in flight). He's passionate about that.

I have another friend who owns a landscaping company. He flies full time.

I have another friend who owns and maintains boat docks and slips and a marine business. He's a professional aviator, full time.

I have another friend who owns his own repair station maintaining general aviation aircraft.

A lot of professional aviators have interests outside aviation; some invest, some work, some own and operate, etc. Some leave aviation to maintain those companies, some do both. One who leaves aviation to operate this own company may do it for love of the company, or for the money, or for any number of other reasons; it's not a ringing indictment against aviation. Nor against the individual. It's a choice.

Or in your case, martyrdom.

SkyHigh

All I have ever said is that my family members were pilots and that is true. They were not professional pilots such as myself but I still come from an aviation family.

I have said this before however things that rang true for pilots of the past do not translate into the future. Young pilots today will experience a different situation and that is what I am writing about. The future.... What your friends did or are doing do not necessarily mean that a no name lower middle class 19 year old will be able to commonly accomplish the same today.

I agree however that it is almost a requirement anymore that professional pilots hold an outside source of income such as a family business. Modern pilots need to be self-sponsored if they are going to be able to hold onto a family, flying career, and to the hope of being able to retire one day. Les Abend who writes for Flying Magazine wrote an article perhaps five years ago that mentioned essentially the same thing. It is a common theme to my philosophy about modern aviation careers. One can not commonly rely exclusively on the proceeds that an aviation career can provide. An essential element for a long term career in aviation plus a stable family and financial life requires sponsorship of some kind. The most common form of sponsorship is a military retirement. Besides that business ownership, parent and spousal support make up the list.

Skyhigh