CJO @ Delta & AA - What would you do?
 

I got extremely lucky and recently got a CJO with Delta & American, one week apart. I never thought I'd be in this position to have the option but need to make a decision soon. I will likely be commuting from STL, which neither airline has a crew base, so that's not much of a factor at the moment. Main deciding factors are QOL / days off, commutability, and employee morale. Any advice or opinions are very much appreciated.

AA has a lot of senior pilots in STL who commute to DFW/ORD.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Apply and hope to get on with FedEx. [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I spent 10 years at Eagle and I currently work for Delta. I know the AA system very well and have sat on my fair share of AA jumpeats as well as just know their overall gist at AA. I think their an amazing company and one which I would also love to be with. That said Delta hired me first and I live in a base that has both for a HUB( just lucky where I live). Having spent some time at Delta I am incredibly honored to be here, but in all reality no more than I would have been to be at AA. I spent years commuting and that is the most debilitating endeavor to go through on a continuous basis. I personally believe that both companies will provide you lots of upwards mobility, pay, and all the other incentives you seek in your life.
I personally would chose the company that will allow me to NOT commute or if you chose to live in a location that isn't a base one that provides you the best commute opportunities ( commuting on a mainline and not relying on a regional lift) I hope that gives you a little help, and congrats!

Just comparing contracts, DELTA!

( I am UAL )

samcro!!!!

Congratulations,

Take the first class date available, then go to Delta when it’s class opens up.

I'd opt for AA. The reason is that you're going to gain seniority a lot quicker at AA than DAL due to retirements. Everything else can change over time.

AA, way more impending retirements. Plus Delta seems dead set on contracting out it's widebody flying. Will probably look like a regional soon.

WN is growing in STL. So, take whichever CJO that will get you the 737 type first, then update your app for WN.
You'll be in the clover! 😜

It all boils down to this: do you, or don’t you, want to wear a hat for the rest of your career....? :D

All joking aside... Great choice to have. Both companies will give you a great career. Contracts come & go... today’s winner could be tomorrow’s loser. You won’t know for sure until you retire.

Since you will be commuting from a city where neither airline has a base, my suggestion is to go with the first class date.

Yes, your seniority will go much further here at AA...but I also have to say that Delta has a much better company culture and better management/labor relations (at least, today... who knows 5, 10 years from now?)

Good luck and congrats!

Good problem to have.. Based on retirements, I'd go with "something special in the air"... Prestige wise, Delta. Have friends at both and they love it.

Stuck flying a guppy for one's entire career? That's akin to the fourth Circle of Hell in Dante's Inferno.

Seems like a no brainer. Delta for profit sharing and better work rules.

I don't work for either, so no dog in the fight.

Great choice to have. The correct answer will come on the day you retire.

Well...the culture at AA has some refining to do. I spent nearly a decade at Eagle and had no desire to repeat the mentality at AA. I’m sure it’s better, but my regional days killed the desire.

So far WN has been fantastic to me.

Like others have said, it’s a good problem to have. Don’t wait too long though—seniority is the name of the game.

Delta has hired something like 3500 in last 4 years mostly younger folks. You will never pass them on the list. AA has not hit the big numbers yet. I would go AA.

AA since I commute out of STL too. 😁

Seriously though, Delta is a great place to work. I have no idea how many AA has hired recently, but the point about the massive numbers of new hires at Delta is a good one and would certainly factor into my decision.

Personally, I’m happy I’m at Delta and not AA. Staring down 4500 newhires @ Delta vs _____ @ AA, might sway my decision as a new guy though. Depends on your age I guess. Aside from that, I’d say Delta.

I feel like the employee group is much happier at DL than pretty much anywhere else. As far as the hiring, on the one hand it does mean you won't be as senior at the end of your career, but how about the career overall? I think anyone starting at Delta can to expect to have a good career, regardless of their age.

Something that no one has pointed out, it seems that AA has some interesting nonrev priorities now. At least the WO regionals are on equal priority to mainline and it's first come first served (check in time) for priority? I imagine that really changes the dynamics of commuting if flying when check in opens has that big of an impact on your chances of getting on the flight. Add in the talk of jumpseat priority changing to seniority and commuting sounds like a lot more stress than at DL.

^^^^^^^
This.

Past performance does not guarantee future results.

That being said, I would put an emphasis on company culture and company stability over seniority. Seniority is a wonderful thing but going to work in an adversarial environment is no fun at all.

Make the best choice based on information available today, that’s the best you can do. There is no crystal ball. And over time, resist the temptation to keep track of where you would have been had you chosen the other company.

Best of luck!

If you’re putting ‘culture’ before ‘seniority’ you’re comparing a belief vs facts. The hard part is figuring out if the belief is true or just whining. The facts, and assumptions that come from that, are easier to analyze.

Cut through all the drama and most guys enjoy working at AA. The same is probably true at every major airline.

What a nice problem to have. Congrats!

I was hell bent on Delta for a long time, but because life is what happens when you’re making other plans, Airways called me first. I’m not one to bounce around, so I let the Delta dream go pretty much right there. Whether that was a good call or not, as others have said I’ll let you know when I retire. :)

As much *****ing is as done on APC about AA (and a lot of it is certainly justified), it’s been a fantastic place to work. The day to day job and the people I work with are great, at least in our NYC base. All things being equal Delta has the better contract and that’s where I’d go, but it’s like having your choice of banging various supermodels. There’s really no way to go *wrong*.

Much like Slice said, if you go by internet buzz you’re getting a skewed picture. I browse here when off thinking my company/job (AA FO) sucks, then I go to work and it’s pretty darn good most days. Having said that, my observations of DAL are internet hearsay, so TIFWIW.

So you have the seniority issue, which drives virtually all other things. You should end up more senior at AA, but frankly the DAL experience seems to be front loaded significantly. By that I mean you will be paid more, quicker there by a significant margin, particularly if you want the quick upgrade. You want late career seniority? Maybe better to invest all that early extra money and retire earlier - I’d imagine that yields a much better schedule than top 10% at AA.

And, wrt AA, I am genuinely concerned with our ability to keep up with retirements. We seem to be trending lower on newhires four years into the hiring process (announced 900 for this year, now saying 700-750, but running an early pace of about 600). While current staffing seems ok, if they cannot manage to increase our training throughput very soon we will be forced to shrink due to retirements, negating that perceived advantage.

I would honestly think your best life would be facilitated by picking the one that has a very strong base in an area to which you’re willing to move and going (and moving) there (btw recent ORD news is concerning for AA). I have commuted for a few years on various occasions; was furloughed from USAir in 2001 and declined my 2007 recall because I valued family time and locale over career (yes, now I’m a 2014 hire at AA 2500 numbers junior to myself, so WTHDIK!? But I did see almost every one of my kids' award ceremonies, plays, games, etc. by not commuting and we had tons of help from and time with family by staying in DFW). But, if you really plan to commute for your entire career, then I would probably lean to Delta because their contract seems to be measurably better than ours and our union is lacking. I honestly don’t expect to be above them with our next contract.

Good luck, it’s a tough call. Either way you will have a great career!

Big D.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you all for taking the time to share your advice and opinions. It's helpful and appreciated. I know I can't go wrong with either airline and am extremely lucky to have the option. This helps to widen my base and exhaust all the research I can between the two airlines.

I commute to a job at Delta and am very happy here. My friends at American love their job but hate their employer. And are jealous of my pay and contract.

Contracts come and go. All DL has over AA now is higher profit sharing and i would expect AA to take care of that in the next contract.

Those 4000 young guys delta has hired in the past 4 years will be senior to you for a long time. I’d say AA.

DAL pros:
Better compensation
Better work rules
No east vs. west drama
Significantly less debt
Less regional flying

AA pros:
Less hiring since 2014 and more retirements in the near future
More international flying
Leather jacket and no hat or double breasted coat

Post back after you retire and let us know which was the right choice

East west drama is pretty rare now in my experience. The integration has been very smooth. We aren’t allowed to wear leather jackets anymore.

As someone else said, I think the benefit of going to DAL is front loaded (which is good with TVM). AA’s seniority benefit will kick in in about 4 years and will be huge at the end of a career.

Hourly rates are the same. Profit sharing at DL is the only thing better. That should be addressed in the next contract in a year or two so the compensation will pretty much be equal.

What work rules are better? AA will have average calendar day soon. That was the big issue and its fixed.

More regional flying at aa could be seen as a good thing if the pilot shortage causes them to bring regional flying in house. AA would need a lot more bodies. Delta has brought a lot in house already so the hiring for that won’t help a new guy bc they’re all senior to them.

There is no east west drama. Go to work. Go home. Get paid. “Cultural” issues are an internet thing.

I hope you guess right!

What happened/is happening?

Probably referencing the spat with AA claiming the city is favoring UAL in the reconstruction plan.

Leather jacket as a pro? Easily the dumbest most unprofessional item I've ever seen on a pilot. We're essentially wearing suits. When's the last time you saw any professional in any business rock up in a suit and a leather jacket. Rant over.

Not sure your argument holds water. If we are basing our uniform on what other professionals wear then we wouldnt be running around in short sleeve shirts and ties. We also wouldnt be wearing a hat indoors.

Anyways, American all the way. 52% of the seniority list gone in the next 9 years. That is a fact.

It may end up not being a problem, but AA has quite a lot of debt on it's books vs DL. I'd take a look at both companies annual reports for a look at corporate health.

Leather jacket is gone at AA.

As to the OP, go to DAL. Better contract, better union, better pilot group, better work rules, and higher pay.

APA is a weak union with too many terrorist factions holding QOL hostage for their special interest items. It won't get better until the top half of the list retires. AA has no issues taking advantage of this group.

In the long run, DAL is stronger financially than AA. You may see more retirements at AA, but that may not matter in the long run.

Maybe a delta guy can confirm this, it sounds like premium trips are plentiful. American goes to great lengths to avoid premium. Delta seems like a better job right now. AA has the seniority advantage but I think deltas better contract makes up for it. Plus delta has faster upgrade and the commute from stl is probably easier at delta.
It is a completely different job living in base. If you can move to any of the bases go to the corresponding airline and don’t look back.

False - the premium trip availability is not what some would have you believe. With the new contract, the company can have an immediate plus up on their reserve availability to cover trips during IROPS with recovery flying obligations should a line holder's trip get cnx'd or modified due to those IROPS.

Minimum days off, premium flying and reserve work rules are more favorable at Delta. (from talking with friends at AA)

Touting more regional flying as a plus? :confused:

Minimum days off for reserves is 12/13 at AA. Think that’s the same at DL. For lineholders it’s not a factor bc you get 5:15 a day once ACD kicks in.

Premium flying is available at AA. Apparently a lot less premium at dL now re the poster above. Edge to DL.

Did you not read the sentence after I wrote more regional flying could be a plus at AA? A lot of it has come back in house at dl already so the hiring for that has already happened. If AA is forced to do the same they’d have to hire more than they’re planning. That’s a plus for the guys hired before that happens.