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[Breeze] Airways

Old 01-31-2023, 08:11 AM
  #3791  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
I would. For the stability and international nonrev network if nothing else.
The new pay at the legacies might be enough to leave Breeze even if it’s a pay cut initially. We’ll see how strong the kool aid is here though. Also we do have myidtravel for those far away destinations!
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Old 01-31-2023, 08:22 AM
  #3792  
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Originally Posted by shortspatula View Post
The new pay at the legacies might be enough to leave Breeze even if itís a pay cut initially. Weíll see how strong the kool aid is here though. Also we do have myidtravel for those far away destinations!
Considering the 401K bump, it may not be a pay cut at all. The 401k was probably the most disappointing part of the compensation there. Not even a 10% match, something! You are losing so much compounding power with 4% its not even funny. One of many things that signaled it wasn't gonna be a career carrier.

They should have given a more generous stock plan to make up for the risk you guys take getting the airline started.
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Old 01-31-2023, 09:44 PM
  #3793  
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Originally Posted by shortspatula View Post
You honestly think that? Oh boy.
Yes lol. The last 4 FOís Iíve flown with, either have interviews lined up or are actively trying to leave. Itís like that at every LCC, even SWA. FOís will continue to leave. If Breeze does not fix these horrible commuter schedules, CAís will start leaving as well.
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Old 02-01-2023, 08:55 AM
  #3794  
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Any updated thoughts on Breeze as a 1500 hour CFI type? I read the info from earlier in the thread recommending against it, however theyíve expanded their partner schools, of which I am an employee, and with the regionals slowing down it seems like an opportunity worth exploring.

Curious if theyíve adjusted the training pipeline at all for those with no prior jet or 121 experience, or if itís still sink or swim?

Thanks.
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Old 02-01-2023, 09:07 AM
  #3795  
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Originally Posted by Swapapotamoose View Post
Yes lol. The last 4 FOís Iíve flown with, either have interviews lined up or are actively trying to leave. Itís like that at every LCC, even SWA. FOís will continue to leave. If Breeze does not fix these horrible commuter schedules, CAís will start leaving as well.
Thatís fine but you said a legacy job trumps LCC even if pay was the same. The confusing part is that you work at breeze with that sentiment. Are you waiting for that legacy job?
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Old 02-01-2023, 10:29 AM
  #3796  
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Originally Posted by Seneca Pilot View Post
I don't know if he is or isn't, but the market for pilots and airframes is drastically different from late 2001, so not a comparable situation.
The business model for Breeze pilots was always to have high turnover. They wanted to eventually get to a point where they can recruit from the same pool as regionals recruits from. Traditionally itís taken 3-5 years at a regional to get enough time to then go to a major. If they paid just above Skywest, but below allegiant, theyíd get newhires, keep them for just enough time for them to get competitive for a major, so then they leave, and Breeze replaces them with someone on year 1 pay. That opens up an upgrade and the cycle repeats. Ideally, breeze would have 3-5 year guys in the left seat and 1-2 year guys in the right seat in perpetuity. Nobody would be on year 6 pay. Thatís been the plan since 2019, maybe earlier.

The problem is, that traditional timeline to a major isnít holding right now, regional pay is at historic highs, etc., so theyíve had to increase comp higher than planned. That business model with pilots actually making money isnít viable, hence the struggle for the company to make money. The business model requires very low paid pilots. Also, notice they never increased 401k with these wage increases. Why? They want you to get in, get out, and keep resetting the pay/vacation scale for their pilots.

Same was true with their flight attendant hiring at the beginning: make them part time college students and ďpart timeĒ FAs, get them a 4 year degree so they go get a higher paying job after checking the FA box in their life and finishing the degree, and they can keep them also averaging low longevity.

Itís not designed to be a career airline. Itís designed to be an alternative to and ďbarely better thanĒ a regional with a little bit larger and shinier planes so you go there instead of Skywest or whomever else, but not good enough to stay long term. Even a single digit seniority number didnít make it worth it for me. The math just wouldnít work out no matter how much I could make with only 4% 401k.

At least you got ALPA early on. But, mesa, frontier, and spirit all have ALPA too and they still suck. So, Iím not optimistic about the pilotsí future at breeze. As far as pilot jobs go, itíll just be one industry undercutting dump for the foreseeable future. I guess those with one and two digit seniority numbers have a lot to give up as the hiring wave continues. But, there will likely continue to be a lot better opportunities for pilots than that clown show for the foreseeable future.
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Old 02-01-2023, 11:19 AM
  #3797  
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Originally Posted by I was inverted View Post
The business model for Breeze pilots was always to have high turnover. They wanted to eventually get to a point where they can recruit from the same pool as regionals recruits from. Traditionally itís taken 3-5 years at a regional to get enough time to then go to a major. If they paid just above Skywest, but below allegiant, theyíd get newhires, keep them for just enough time for them to get competitive for a major, so then they leave, and Breeze replaces them with someone on year 1 pay. That opens up an upgrade and the cycle repeats. Ideally, breeze would have 3-5 year guys in the left seat and 1-2 year guys in the right seat in perpetuity. Nobody would be on year 6 pay. Thatís been the plan since 2019, maybe earlier.

The problem is, that traditional timeline to a major isnít holding right now, regional pay is at historic highs, etc., so theyíve had to increase comp higher than planned. That business model with pilots actually making money isnít viable, hence the struggle for the company to make money. The business model requires very low paid pilots. Also, notice they never increased 401k with these wage increases. Why? They want you to get in, get out, and keep resetting the pay/vacation scale for their pilots.

Same was true with their flight attendant hiring at the beginning: make them part time college students and ďpart timeĒ FAs, get them a 4 year degree so they go get a higher paying job after checking the FA box in their life and finishing the degree, and they can keep them also averaging low longevity.

Itís not designed to be a career airline. Itís designed to be an alternative to and ďbarely better thanĒ a regional with a little bit larger and shinier planes so you go there instead of Skywest or whomever else, but not good enough to stay long term. Even a single digit seniority number didnít make it worth it for me. The math just wouldnít work out no matter how much I could make with only 4% 401k.

At least you got ALPA early on. But, mesa, frontier, and spirit all have ALPA too and they still suck. So, Iím not optimistic about the pilotsí future at breeze. As far as pilot jobs go, itíll just be one industry undercutting dump for the foreseeable future. I guess those with one and two digit seniority numbers have a lot to give up as the hiring wave continues. But, there will likely continue to be a lot better opportunities for pilots than that clown show for the foreseeable future.
Cool story. Except that majors are making historic pay, so not much undercutting going on is there? If anything they raised the pay here and more coming soon and supposedly ALPA was voted in! Doesnít seem like a whole lot of bottom feeding. I think youíre still stuck on 2019.
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Old 02-01-2023, 12:19 PM
  #3798  
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Originally Posted by I was inverted View Post
The business model for Breeze pilots was always to have high turnover. They wanted to eventually get to a point where they can recruit from the same pool as regionals recruits from. Traditionally itís taken 3-5 years at a regional to get enough time to then go to a major. If they paid just above Skywest, but below allegiant, theyíd get newhires, keep them for just enough time for them to get competitive for a major, so then they leave, and Breeze replaces them with someone on year 1 pay. That opens up an upgrade and the cycle repeats. Ideally, breeze would have 3-5 year guys in the left seat and 1-2 year guys in the right seat in perpetuity. Nobody would be on year 6 pay. Thatís been the plan since 2019, maybe earlier.

The problem is, that traditional timeline to a major isnít holding right now, regional pay is at historic highs, etc., so theyíve had to increase comp higher than planned. That business model with pilots actually making money isnít viable, hence the struggle for the company to make money. The business model requires very low paid pilots. Also, notice they never increased 401k with these wage increases. Why? They want you to get in, get out, and keep resetting the pay/vacation scale for their pilots.

Same was true with their flight attendant hiring at the beginning: make them part time college students and ďpart timeĒ FAs, get them a 4 year degree so they go get a higher paying job after checking the FA box in their life and finishing the degree, and they can keep them also averaging low longevity.

Itís not designed to be a career airline. Itís designed to be an alternative to and ďbarely better thanĒ a regional with a little bit larger and shinier planes so you go there instead of Skywest or whomever else, but not good enough to stay long term. Even a single digit seniority number didnít make it worth it for me. The math just wouldnít work out no matter how much I could make with only 4% 401k.

At least you got ALPA early on. But, mesa, frontier, and spirit all have ALPA too and they still suck. So, Iím not optimistic about the pilotsí future at breeze. As far as pilot jobs go, itíll just be one industry undercutting dump for the foreseeable future. I guess those with one and two digit seniority numbers have a lot to give up as the hiring wave continues. But, there will likely continue to be a lot better opportunities for pilots than that clown show for the foreseeable future.
Single digit guy as well. Perfectly said
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Old 02-01-2023, 01:33 PM
  #3799  
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Originally Posted by shortspatula View Post
Cool story. Except that majors are making historic pay, so not much undercutting going on is there? If anything they raised the pay here and more coming soon and supposedly ALPA was voted in! Doesnít seem like a whole lot of bottom feeding. I think youíre still stuck on 2019.
I donít think you quite comprehended my post.
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Old 02-01-2023, 04:05 PM
  #3800  
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All I get interpret out of these posts is that Breeze lags in 401k, which has been said since day one. So if Breeze did a 16% DC would it be a career-worthy airline in the eyes of a Delta pilot???
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