FPG120

I just cinched up the belts. Moderate to severe chop ahead.

Can't wait!

JetJocF14

DING Your now free to move around the country............

FPG120

OUCH!!

Trying for a lower altitude....

wannabepilot

Soooo.....there are no non-union pilots at places like Delta, Continental, etc...and you couldn't be hired at one of those airlines, or any regional carrier that had a union? And...even if you are not a member of a union, you stay pay the "dues," but cannot vote?

I'm a sophomore in college and majoring in something totally unrelated to aviation. I just am trying to figure out how everything in the airline industry works. I am trying to make a decision on whether or not to begin the long road to becoming an airline pilot. I know I want to get my Private because I love flying and have loved it since I was a child. I haven't decided if I want to pursue aviation as a career. I'm just trying to soak up as much information as I can and make an informed decision. These boards help greatly. Thanks for the info.

fireman0174

I've never been directly involved defending a "non-member", but I think the individual can be billed for the union's service, while a member would not have this expense.

greedyairlineexec

you can have a
job for a non union carrier. you will start flying as an instructor for a non unionized school, then you might go fly 135 for a non union freight or charter operator, then you might go fly for a union or non union regional, then you might go to work for a union or non union big yet perator( southern, trade winds ,polar...) then you might get your chance to go fly for a legacy and you will join the untion.

every time you get a union airline job you join the airline union, if you leave and work for a non union carrier you don't have a union to join. then, when you go work for another union carrier you join the union again. it is not like trade unions where you need to always work for union shops once you join. in aviation your membership becames inactive and then activates depending of carrieres representation or lack thereoff.

Slice

You're a fool to not join the union if you have access to one with your pilot group. As bad as things are or have been, this job would be 1000 times worse without ALPA, IPA, SWAPA, etc...

dojetdriver

Before you REALLY stick your foot in your mouth, I'd like you to clarify something. Did you REALLY list Polar as a non-union carrier?

Funny, I seem to remember a pilot group that worked at a place with that name that ACTUALLY stood up, showed some sack, and dedcided to take a brief period of time off not too long ago to get some better work rules and pay.

It's called a strike, it's UNIONIZED labor groups that engage in those.

RedeyeAV8r

Sorry for the long rant but some of you Junior guys/gals and Anti Union folks need to hear this.

I have been involved Union grievance cases in the past.
Understanding the reasons for Union stances on defending NON-Members and why most ALPA contracts contain Agency Shop Clauses is stated below.
Again it is a very sore issue ,especially at Fedex because prior to this recent contract we had no agency shop and thus had at one time 500 non dues payers. Many members misunderstand the Duty of Fair representation legal responsibility of the Union.

Let us talk specifically a Discipline case. It can be something a simple as a training or pay issue, but let us talk of something more involved.
The Union must ensure that the Accused Pilot (usually terminated 1st @ FedEx) has access to all the legal rights contained within the contract. The Union does not have to defend anyone if it is determined by the Grievance committee it is a NO win case..........usually backed up by a vote from the MEC. But in most cases the Union will elect to defend a Member.

The Union cannot elect to not defend a NON-member based on membership status (race, color , creed gender, blah blah blah). The Union can elect not to defend a NON-memeber based on the merits of the Case......i.e NO win scenario and backed up by a MEC no vote.

The Problem Fireman, as you know, is that many cases are Precidential in nature and the if the Union does not represent a NON-Member and he/she is terminated, the UNION will face an UP hill battle if they need to defend a member for the same offense in the future. That also opens up the Union to a federal lawsuit, because the NON-member could sue becuase he/she could state, "You defended the Member for the same Offense I was accused of".

First case: We had a CAPT (non member) and a FO (member) who were fired for refusing to launch in a typhoon.....Won't get into all specifics of it but that is the gist. Capt sez, "I am making a weather call, FO sez, your the CAP and I agree." They both get fired but Company decides to handle it as 2 separate cases. They offer the FO a "last Chance letter" meaning he gets his job back under the terms of this letter and waives all contractual rights for 2 years. This forces UNION to decide if they will defend the NON-Member. Union defends both...........long and short both get their jobs back.
Non Member Capt, does the right thing and joins Union. I believe he paid all back dues. Win one for the Gipper!

Case 2 approx 7 years ago, Under an Independant Union, we had NON-members who were having problems with retirement issues.

Get this, they were always non-members actively engaged in ANTI-Union drives on the property. A Union is certified and a our first contract is ratified. The one crown jewel of our 1st contract was the retirement section.The non-members got an increase of appox $45,000 annually in their pensions.

They were having problems with the company paying premiums. They had the gaul to come to the UNION and ask for help. Most of the Union folks wanted to say "Go F$&K yourself"........but as you can see this was a very precidential case and if the Union did not rectifiy it, it could have had far reaching effects on futre UNION members. Anyway the Union defended these guys and won. Large amounts of legal fees and trip pay loss were spent defending these.........Turds.

I let you guess the answer, if any of these guys offered to pay for UNION legal service. The legal fees and associated trip pay loss totaled upwards of??? "Well lets say more than most of you make in a year or two" . That is why I have such a probelm with freeloaders.

Lifizgud

Extremely well said!