Airline Pilot Central Forums - Delta runway incursion JFK

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Quote:

Originally Posted by John Carr (Post 2956263)

Inquiring minds want to know!!!!

But let's back up the phases of flight and TEM, was there a wind check?

And did Captain Happy transition?

it it wasn’t funny the first 3 times, but this time it was, well done. And kudos to your persistence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 2956435)

And right after she didn't clear them to cross, clear as day, she cleared a plane to takeoff on that SAME runway. The crew missed that one too. This was 99% on the crew.

The takeoff clearance was on a different frequency--both with female controllers. The LiveATC feed was scanning between the two. The DAL300 crew would not have heard the takeoff clearance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrxpilot (Post 2956503)

I flew jets and turboprops into the mountains for many years, including MFR. I never said I didn’t look at approach plates, so nice assumption there.

I do absolutely see a setup for a tired and/or inexperienced/complacent crew with the situation in MFR you’re referring to. Unlike you, who is apparently impervious to mistakes, I see the ATC instructions to that crew as extremely dangerous. It would only be a matter of time before someone fell for that trap.

I completely agree with you. Just as an ATC rapid fire clearance and not listening for a hold short read back was dangerous in this case (along with the takeoff clearance being given on a different frequency it appears). My example was in response to the RJ driver that claims to be immune from an event like this because of all his experience operating at JFK and other large hubs. Delta should have hired guys like him because they are impervious to mistakes like this one. What a screwed up thought process.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2955170)

She was speaking extremely fast. It’s becoming more of a issue as many controllers seem to be in a speed talking contest. She is always hard to understand when she gets into her speed talking mode.

thats like when they give route clearances real fast. I guess they think its cool. We can do this once if you say it slow or 3 times if you say it fast. Which is more efficient.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big E 757 (Post 2956504)

it it wasn’t funny the first 3 times, but this time it was, well done. And kudos to your persistence.

Light chop, was there any reported?

But thank you, I’ll be here all week. Please make
sure to tip your servers. And try the prime rib.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 2956435)

ATC is not required to correct bad read-backs.

Just a point of clarification, this is a very common misconception. Controllers are required to get hold short read backs and also correct any incorrect read backs. They briefly changed it but it has been the case for about 20 years now.

Reference my post above, #30.

The one I get triggered by is when you're still rolling down the runway at 80 kts and they are giving you exit/taxi instructions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrxpilot (Post 2956503)

I flew jets and turboprops into the mountains for many years

I had to read that a few times because my first thought was "how many lives does this dude have?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry in TN (Post 2956520)

The takeoff clearance was on a different frequency--both with female controllers. The LiveATC feed was scanning between the two. The DAL300 crew would not have heard the takeoff clearance.

You just explained a lot for me. How did you find that out?

Thank you Larry in TN, that explains a lot, When I made my earlier post I thought I was listening to 119.1 only.