xtwapilot

AA73,
Like I said, when you call these guys on their lies, all of a sudden topic gets changed. There were some subversive guys at TWA during the entire process, and every TWA pilot knows who they are, and from what I have heard, they are not well respected on the AA side either. In any case all of this will come out shortly. Take care

Xtwapilot

320ToBearz

well according to the FAR's you ARE. shall i quote them again:

tone

Right. Only we HAVE held a crewmember position with AA. Last I checked, a pilot is a crewmember, and we were operating under AA callsigns, etc. Good job memorizing the FAR's though. Keep up the good work! I know you'll go far.

320ToBearz

TWA, LLC pilots operated under which certificate? American Airlines operates under which certificate?

again, its not what i say, but what the arbitrator said. he said you're a newhire for purposes of letter 3 application to eagle now you four parties go figure it out. i'm guessing since ralphie is fighting for his job, the apa will be unavailable until after the runoff and it will go back to the arbitrator in 60 days.

tone

Gray area, very gray area.

tone

Also, if we end up becoming "newhires", I guess the next round of bad news for us will be that we have to interview and go through that 2-day physical exam again? Wouldn't be surprised.

320ToBearz

you're considered a "newhire" for application of a flowthrough letter at american eagle. you'll be whatever seniority you had back at AA once recalled.

we're all one big happy amr family!

tone

So I'm automatically hired into the pool? Awesome. Big pool though, hope I don't drown.

B757200ER

TWA LLC was wholly owned by American Airlines, not by AMR Corp. TWA and AA pilots were represented seperately until April '02, when the NMB officially declared AA/TWA pilots to be a SINGLE CARRIER for representation purposes, and since the TWA/AA pilot seniority list had been integrated April '01, it was just a mere formality. So, one pilot group, under one company, represented by one union. In other words, there were NO 'new hires' for the purposes of Letter 3. There will be new hires after every AA pilot on the AA seniority list that was FURLOUGHED is RECALLED, then Eagle pilots will be allowed to flow up. FAA operating certificates have NOTHING to do with being a new-hire.

320ToBearz

yes but there were people who NEVER worked for AA who were furloughed immediately. these are the specific people the arbitrator mentions that will have to goto "new hire" training as outlined in FAA 8400.10 and AA's AQP. (ie they never were on american's certificate as a pilot). he then goes on to say that some of these pilots WERE eligible to flow back through the Bloch decision, that AE CJ captains be eligible to flow through. in his words:

"....Indeed, AA and APA created this controversy by lifting this restriction(i'm adding here: the restriction was that TWA pilots inlcuded in section IV cannot be excluded from section III), originally contained in Supplement CC, which prevented former TWA pilots from procuring employment at AE. Under the APA's and AA's inequitable interpretation of Section III, the former TWA pilots receive furlough protection at the expense of AE pilots while the AE pilots receive nothing in return even though the former TWA pilots substantially expanded the AA seniority list. Consequently, the AE pilots unreasonably absorbed two hits...."