AMR Recalls
05-28-2007, 02:44 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,889
Originally Posted by FliFast
320,
IWe wanted Date of hire, period. We even offered a rightful place formula which would have had little or no effect on the NAAtives and that too was laughed at.
IWe wanted Date of hire, period. We even offered a rightful place formula which would have had little or no effect on the NAAtives and that too was laughed at.
USAir pilots also wanted DOH. They didn't get it because a neutral arbitrator deemed it unfair to AWA pilots. In our case we didn't have to subscribe to a neutral (two different unions), even though I thought that was the fairest way. DOH works in some cases and not in others.
APA also proposed an earlier integration that was significantly more beneficial to the TWA pilots than the current one. In that proposal there were only 800 or so staplees, with the rest at some kind of ratio integration.The TWA delegation also laughed at APA and walked out. So there was a little of that going on from both sides. At that point (right around 9/11) the APA got fed up with the lack of negotiations and the walking out of the TWA folks and they set up the current deal.
Not trying to judge what was right or not, just pointing out some facts as they happened.
73
05-28-2007, 05:36 PM
#22
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: B757/767 FO
Posts: 40
AA73,
I have a feeling you got that story from the STL clan that is still left on property, as there was a group of pilots within TWA that wanted the STL flying protected and didn't care about anything else. This is the very group that has spread some bogus info regarding a better deal, the real fact of the matter is that there was no better deal, there has never been any documentation to support the better deal, and the minute you ask anyone from this group to produce the document, they move onto some other diatribe. Standby for the truth to come out soon regarding this matter.
Xtwapilot
I have a feeling you got that story from the STL clan that is still left on property, as there was a group of pilots within TWA that wanted the STL flying protected and didn't care about anything else. This is the very group that has spread some bogus info regarding a better deal, the real fact of the matter is that there was no better deal, there has never been any documentation to support the better deal, and the minute you ask anyone from this group to produce the document, they move onto some other diatribe. Standby for the truth to come out soon regarding this matter.
Xtwapilot
05-28-2007, 06:34 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,889
Originally Posted by xtwapilot
AA73,
I have a feeling you got that story from the STL clan that is still left on property, as there was a group of pilots within TWA that wanted the STL flying protected and didn't care about anything else. This is the very group that has spread some bogus info regarding a better deal, the real fact of the matter is that there was no better deal, there has never been any documentation to support the better deal, and the minute you ask anyone from this group to produce the document, they move onto some other diatribe. Standby for the truth to come out soon regarding this matter.
Xtwapilot
I have a feeling you got that story from the STL clan that is still left on property, as there was a group of pilots within TWA that wanted the STL flying protected and didn't care about anything else. This is the very group that has spread some bogus info regarding a better deal, the real fact of the matter is that there was no better deal, there has never been any documentation to support the better deal, and the minute you ask anyone from this group to produce the document, they move onto some other diatribe. Standby for the truth to come out soon regarding this matter.
Xtwapilot
05-28-2007, 06:58 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: 767A (Ret)
Posts: 6,248
Is it already that bad?
Originally Posted by 320ToBearz
The TWA pilots are like that Japanese soldier found on the tiny Pacific atoll 40 years later, ready to kill more Americans.
It's shocking to hear that any airline pilots are like that. I was aware that the profession had gone downhill, but -- so far, and so soon?
05-29-2007, 02:43 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 393
Originally Posted by EagleDriver
I thought that the Letter 3 arbitration stated that the TWA LLC pilots generated "Employment Opportunities" at AA for Eagle pilots. I didn't read anywhere that Eagle pilots should be placed above or between former TWA LLC pilots.
The way I understand this arbitration award is that those Eagle pilots who've checked out as CA at Eagle will have the opportunity to flow to AA at some time in the future. I understood this to mean they would be placed below ALL pilots currently on the AA/APA seniority list. Am I mistaken? If I am wrong then will someone please point out in the arbitrators wording, where he says Eagle pilots should fall on the list.
The way I understand this arbitration award is that those Eagle pilots who've checked out as CA at Eagle will have the opportunity to flow to AA at some time in the future. I understood this to mean they would be placed below ALL pilots currently on the AA/APA seniority list. Am I mistaken? If I am wrong then will someone please point out in the arbitrators wording, where he says Eagle pilots should fall on the list.
05-29-2007, 06:05 AM
#27
AAmerican Way for AA Pay
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: B-737 Pilot
Posts: 1,617
Originally Posted by 320ToBearz
The arbitrator used the definition of new hire training in his decision. The pilots at TWA, LLC fit the "new hire" definition.
Look at paragraph 289 (page 3-162)
http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/e...3/3_002_01.pdf
Anyone in the box pushing an agenda is a tool and should be fired (at Eagle or AA).
Who got screwed more? The answer ain't the pilots. My vote is the nice and professional TWA flight attendants who got royally screwed and are now permanently f@#$ed, unlike the pilots.
Look at paragraph 289 (page 3-162)
http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/e...3/3_002_01.pdf
Anyone in the box pushing an agenda is a tool and should be fired (at Eagle or AA).
Who got screwed more? The answer ain't the pilots. My vote is the nice and professional TWA flight attendants who got royally screwed and are now permanently f@#$ed, unlike the pilots.
I agree with your next sentence, for sure; and it DID happen, trust me.
Who got screwed more? Well, out of 22,500 TWA employees working when AA bought TWA, only 2000 are left at AA. Does it really matter?
05-29-2007, 06:39 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 393
I'm ex TWA and happen to have an American Airlines Pilot uniform hanging in my closet. I did NOT buy it at some garage sale, I earned it by flying for AA after we were aquired by AA. I agree--We are not going to be new hires if we ever get called back.
05-29-2007, 06:42 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,889
OK XTwa, so far on the APA board there are a couple of TWA pilots - one senior, one junior - who can attest to the fact that there was indeed a better proposal that got shot down. But like you implied, it seems to be cloaked in a cloud of secrecy (Wow, the poet in me!)
Like B757ER says, it's a moot point, what's done is done - so this really doesn't matter anyway. I pretty much opened a new can of worms on the APA board...again.
Hope all is well w/ youse guys. Cheers, 73
Like B757ER says, it's a moot point, what's done is done - so this really doesn't matter anyway. I pretty much opened a new can of worms on the APA board...again.
Hope all is well w/ youse guys. Cheers, 73
05-29-2007, 06:54 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 393
Originally Posted by aa73
OK XTwa, so far on the APA board there are a couple of TWA pilots - one senior, one junior - who can attest to the fact that there was indeed a better proposal that got shot down. But like you implied, it seems to be cloaked in a cloud of secrecy (Wow, the poet in me!)
Like B757ER says, it's a moot point, what's done is done - so this really doesn't matter anyway. I pretty much opened a new can of worms on the APA board...again.
Hope all is well w/ youse guys. Cheers, 73
Like B757ER says, it's a moot point, what's done is done - so this really doesn't matter anyway. I pretty much opened a new can of worms on the APA board...again.
Hope all is well w/ youse guys. Cheers, 73
Did you read what I wrote? All I said was that I agree with 757ER that we are not new hires. In response to the rest of what you wrote..."Uh, what?"
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