Ha ha. Sure, gramps. Hush. Back to bed now. Let me get your ensure. You've had a long day.

So...Who cares?

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This is nothing but more selfishness from the most selfish generation ever. The boomers at the end of their careers planned poorly, wasted their money when they were young, relied on a pension that was underfunded for a decade instead of starting their own investments, and even after they got retirement age raised once to make up for it, they still couldn't make it work so now they want another bite of the apple. No. You made bad life choices, and that's not my problem. Buh bye. Shoo. Good riddance. I can't wait for the working environment in this industry to improve when they leave and take their politics, grouchiness, selfishness, and conspiracy theories with them.

Age 67, or age XYZ, might be a bigger deal for airlines then they thought. If it crept its way into our industry, the unions would most certainly capatialize on it.

No more 12 year max CA pay. Some pay Max 15. I would be pushing for a max 40 year CA pay - pay scale.

if they want old pilots that much, that bad, they need to be ready to pay big bucks for that kind of experience.

Once the unions all change strategy the airlines will realize how expensive it is.

If unions were smart, they would put the pay scales in now. Why? It doesn't cost anything.

Heck, even United Airlines has a age 70 provision in their current LTD tables. They planned for age 70 with the CAL/UAL merger by putting aside money. So, on the one hand ALPA says no, but their crown jewel contract with United looks like they are playing both sides of the coin. Nothing like your loyal union being loyal to the pilots and loyal to management at the same time. ALPA is part of the problem!

I treat this as a job now. Not a career. I have kids in the corporate world. They do the job, and leave it there. I do the same. Sick calls fix things when my attitude needs improving.

My major point is this: Extending the age limit to 67 won't fix a pilot shortage. Career earnings, logical career path and progression, career stability, and high entry level pay along with high level exit plan will fix it. It will take 20 years of sustained airline profitability to do this.

The gang bang style of airline expansion and growth that management has embarked upon is foolish. Management is driving the pilot shortage. They keep buying airplanes at record rates. Insane. If they were worried about the supply of qualified pilots then they wouldn't have bought so many damn airplanes. The sky is crowded. Terminals are packed. Heck you need to take 3 aspirin ff your going to wait in a TSA line. Airplanes are severely over crowded. Fights and violence on airplanes every day. The traveling public is in a sardine can from check in at the airport to arriving at their destination. Airlines just keep buying planes and adding capacity. Management is trying to "break the shortage of pilots" by ordering so many planes. Tehy are trying to influence the supply/demand side of the labor equation. Their 2 biggest costs are labor and fuel. Not much they can do about fuel costs. So, labor....they want you to work for cheaper and don't care about the difference a 12 year CA makes or a 32 year CA. It's the same damn pay.

I agree with all of that. And something has to give. The problem is that the airlines are just a microcosm of corporate America. They aren't responsible to the people, the workers, the government, the environment, just the shareholders. all they care about is making more money. Corporate America is broken and nobody will ever fix it because otherwise you're socialist. Meanwhile we slide closer to a Russia style oligarchy every day.

Also I didn't mean to write my reply above to you. Fixed it.

You forgot to survey the vast majority of AME's.

They don't like the idea at all due to cognitive decline.

However, what will that do to the motivation of young aspiring pilots who are thinking of joining this career. It will make the pilot shortage worse.

Young & angry. Boring as hell.

Extending pay scales only serves to stretch out the time it takes to get to the max pay rate. You aren't actually making more money because there are more steps. Keep the 12 year step.

What would you say you do?
-sit on my tail most of the day watching and sometimes playing a multimillion dollar video game. Oh, and making hard decisions like "chicken or beef" and "can I turn off the light no one pays attention to anyways.
What should that require?
-fit into skinny jeans and run a sub 6 min mile. Next question.

Age 70 or no age limit coming.
 

Rumor floating around that the new FAA administrator is looking at either eliminating the madatory age limit or bumping it up to 70. So much for all this 67 talk. Need a new thread. Would not surprise me if true he has zero allegiance to ALPA. It's all about operating a sound air transportation system safely. Nice to see a non pilot running it again. Pilots just muck it up , look no further than the max debacle.

Mentally quick as a teenager? Teenagers are idiots too, so I’m not sure that’s the point you’re trying to make.

You can blame ALPA for your displacement
 

Those displacements coming this fall are a direct result of ALPA opposing age 67. There goes that right seat bid and wide body bid. Thanks ALPA. United cutting back schedule due to lack of pilots.

Just a brilliant move right up there with the TA

Seems like not having a retirement age has been working out great for Netjets. Rumor has it they only want to hire 70 year olds.

Yeah, cause they’ll die before they reach max pay rates.

Care to opine why ATC controllers have an earlier mandatory retirement than we do?

Cognitive decline is real. It's science, bruh.

Started by you.

You're getting desperate, gramps. Grasping at straws. You're not even making sense again. you're really not making a good case for being cognitively fit.

If anything, you greedy boomers getting 2 more years to rape the younger generations will cause a displacement because fewer retirements that they've already hired for. You do realize that, right?

Ha! Uncle Warren pays them in Dillybars and cherry cola so the 80 year olds can have the mind and body of a 30 year old. If you don't believe me just have breakfast at the Teterboro Hilton. Almost like the movie Cocoon.

I'll tell you why bruh. THEY HAVE A FN PENSION!!! and don't want or need to work past 57. When will block head pilots figure that out. If we had a pension like we did pre BK the top 30% of the list would happily be gone. You idiots that support ALPAs age position and no pension are only hurting yourselves. I see 35 year pilots everyday waddling thru the airport that can't even see their own feet and your worried about the 60+ guy that runs marathons every year? Really?

Keep drinking the ALPA coolaide. I suspect I could run circles around Mr Margaritaville even tho I'm possibly 20 years his senior. Not a gramps yet and as sharp as I've ever been. BTW I'm an extreme sports athlete so careful on your labeling you just might be full of sh*t.

FedEx and UPS still have pensions. You would definitely be a top tier candidate.

Sounds like you have a very very very long career ahead of you. Those behind the Boomers will take their same form as well as those behind them when it’s their turn. Definitely not all will stay but the majority will drag it out to the limit whatever that might be and labeled the same as above it’s just cyclic. Terrorism, 08 market, Pandemic, industry competition, etc. What you said is sound thinking Good Luck - take your own advice you will need it. Optimizer’s aren’t going away unlike some of those you detest for your sake. Enjoy your decades of fun if you can, wish you the best whatever that might be.

*While I’m not a Boomer (wouldn’t mind if I was) I have planned accordingly and at this point it’s just fun (I don’t live in the pax world or much of an optimizer outfit).

Generalize much? I am younger than boomer, but only by a few years (so maybe you are not talking to me). I am not grouchy, definitely not conspiracy theorist, leave my (left wing) politics out of the cockpit. Age 65 meant I spent 5 more years displaced as an FO working for regional pay. Never had a pension to rely on, but it saving isn't easy when you don't make money. Wife and I worked full time, shared one car, rented one of the two bedrooms in our apartment out, and waited with having kids until we felt we could afford them. Aside from getting into aviation I would love you to come over one evening, have a beer, and explain to me all the bad choices I made.
I flew with a boomer. He was at UAL for 30 years, and was the first one to leave without a pension. Plenty of money in the bank because he saved, but still mad that they took about $5M away from him. Went back to flying to pay for his kids medical school. Is that selfish?

If it wasn't for the 20 years of sacrifice by those boomers you wouldn't have an airline to work for or a job. So be careful who you call selfish you spoiled little brat.

One of two things will happen
 

You support age 67 or you support foreign pilots on work visas. Have fun explaining to your family member trying to get hired that you supported foreigners taking their job and driving down wages. Or putting up with 24 months of senior pilots bidding minimum schedules and maybe costing you 3 months to an upgrade if anything since the airline can grow. In fact 67 could accelerate upgrades in my opinion. As usual the short sighted pilots always step in it. Enjoy your displacements.

Literally no one cares

Shuffle board is not an extreme sport. I don’t know who told you it was, but they lied to you.

Troll city…or KS.

Ummmm, I believe your are referring to “Margarit’s” uneducated, inexperienced, self serving rant on the Boomers. I have been flying for decades in the military and the civilian side and greatly appreciate the efforts made even prior to my arrival. Thankful I do not have decades looming before me and able to punch out whenever and that it most likely will be my choice (barring med/unforeseen event). Folks need to manage their expectations otherwise life will do it for you.

*Literally the overall answer was “No one cares”, youth is King for a bit, old is wisdom for awhile, but overall you get what you get life goes on with or without you. Karma…

I keep seeing “most selfish generation ever” comments about Boomers. I’m not saying you’re wrong, or right, just curious wth data you’re basing that moral castigation upon?

Bloomers started their careers during Black Monday financial drop, saw the demise of Eastern, Pan Am, and Midway, dealt with the recession of 92-93, 9/11, housing crisis and financial collapse of 08…. And now Covid. When Boomers were in their 20-30’s unless you were ex-mil, getting hired at a major was a statistical anomaly. In 93, to get hired at a regional, you had to pay THEM… the application fee, the sim check fee, and then 10k or so to have the high privilege of sittin in the right seat of a Brazilia.


It seems a tad rich that pilots with barely any PIC turbine are getting hired at major airlines, some of which until now wouldn’t have considered you without a college degree and maybe ex-mil, and whom are enjoying the benefits of the Boomers that negotiated and fought for the contracts new hires are enjoying would be considered “greediest generation ever”…… but, could be wrong. Just like to know what you’re basing that statement on.

Gen X’ers from like 1998 on didn’t have an easy path either, and many of us didn’t hit the Major mark until 2015 because they all required turbine PIC, which may have been hard to come by after 9/11 and 2008. The hiring at this time is truly in unprecedented territory, and the lowest quals to get on with a major in my lifetime. We can’t choose when we were born, but I’m grateful for the pathfinders that came before us.

This got zero to do with who deserves what. Better if the psych evals come before the EKG, BP cuff. But they won't.

Well said !

300 posts, 3 months. Somebody needs a rest. Not a short one either. https://youtu.be/Czgp1MOOKDQ

You're truly the gift that keeps on giving.

Watch that blood pressure, gramps.

Cue selfish Boomer with another inane, senile retort in 3..2..1..

Someone can start a new thread when there is a legislative update.otherwise the insult slinging is done on this one

Closed