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-   -   ALPA: Don't raise retirement age (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/137768-alpa-dont-raise-retirement-age.html)

ridinhigh 05-20-2022 12:48 PM


Originally Posted by Tiger Pilot (Post 3426707)
The only option left: increase pay and QoL to attract more people to the industry.


if there was a like button.

so a Project Manager at a tech company can pull in 500k. In their 20s possibly. Whats a wide body CA worth? Double? Triple ?
unfortunatly it’s more like half. Fix that and there won’t be a “shortage” anymore.

dualinput 05-20-2022 01:18 PM


Originally Posted by SonicFlyer (Post 3426701)
So the unions don't want to allow an extension of retirement age, and they don't want to lower the artificially high entry barrier, so what solutions are they actually coming up with to help solve at least the current short term acute pilot shortage?

If there was a high barrier to entry the compensation would be higher. Surgeons have a high barrier to entry which is why they make a lot of money. You can be a pilot zero to hero in less than two years

SonicFlyer 05-20-2022 01:29 PM


Originally Posted by Tiger Pilot (Post 3426707)
The only option left: increase pay and QoL to attract more people to the industry.

That doesn't solve anything in the short term. Maybe not even the mid-term.

Originally Posted by OOfff (Post 3426728)
yeah, the unions are the bad guys for not wanting to devalue the labor of their members :rolleyes:

False cause and effect. Neither lowering the entry requirements or extending the retirement age at the current point in time will have any effect on wages.

Originally Posted by dualinput (Post 3426781)
If there was a high barrier to entry the compensation would be higher. You can be a pilot zero to hero in less than two years

Nearly impossible to get to 1500 in less than two years, and for most it costs well over $100k. The hill between wet commercial and 1500 is too steep to climb for most, especially given the training costs. That's really the crux of the issue. And as such, it does indeed create a high barrier to entry.

dualinput 05-20-2022 01:34 PM


Originally Posted by SonicFlyer (Post 3426785)
That doesn't solve anything in the short term. Maybe not even the mid-term.
False cause and effect. Neither lowering the entry requirements or extending the retirement age at the current point in time will have any effect on wages. Nearly impossible to get to 1500 in less than two years, and for most it costs well over $100k.

1. It would absolutely have an affect on wages

2. You 100% can get 1500hrs in less than two years.

3. Do you know how much it costs and how long it takes to get a bachelor, go to med school, and complete a residency? A lot longer than two years and a lot more than $100k. Now that’s a barrier to entry yet folk still getting into the field. I bet less than half do it bc their primary reason is helping people. Big money and prestige are primary. Give us that and no more shortage and you could even make the requirements that much harder.

OOfff 05-20-2022 02:18 PM


Originally Posted by SonicFlyer (Post 3426785)
.
False cause and effect. Neither lowering the entry requirements or extending the retirement age at the current point in time will have any effect on wages. .

Good thing we don’t only look at the “current time.”

fadec 05-20-2022 03:52 PM


Originally Posted by SonicFlyer (Post 3426701)
So the unions don't want to allow an extension of retirement age, and they don't want to lower the artificially high entry barrier, so what solutions are they actually coming up with to help solve at least the current short term acute pilot shortage?

It's a training shortage, not a pilot shortage. There are still plenty of 1500+ hour qualified guys on the street but the airlines can't train them fast enough. So a flight cancels and they cry "pilot shortage" when they actually should be saying "demand is back and we downsized for covid and now we can't train fast enough, plz help".

threeighteen 05-20-2022 04:06 PM


Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 3426689)
It's been their policy for years. And good.

They were against age 65 for years before they caved. I wouldn't have been shocked to see them cave on this one too, but I'm glad they didn't.

Skeet20 05-20-2022 04:19 PM


Originally Posted by threeighteen (Post 3426889)
They were against age 65 for years before they caved. I wouldn't have been shocked to see them cave on this one too, but I'm glad they didn't.

They will cave. ALPA like SWAPA has screwed the pilots more than once. Just ask the TWA or AirTran guys.

JoeFever1 05-20-2022 04:59 PM


Originally Posted by dualinput (Post 3426781)
If there was a high barrier to entry the compensation would be higher. Surgeons have a high barrier to entry which is why they make a lot of money. You can be a pilot zero to hero in less than two years

Just because you can go zero to hero in 2 years doesn’t make it easy. Not anyone can be a pilot. Not even close. Medical, education, coordination, personality, etc. Lots of layers

HalinTexas 05-20-2022 05:58 PM

Is rather have a national seniority list, and ALPA and every other Union take care of the furloughed.


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