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-   -   ALPA: Don't raise retirement age (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/137768-alpa-dont-raise-retirement-age.html)

SonicFlyer 05-21-2022 09:14 AM


Originally Posted by BoilerUP (Post 3427192)
*demand vs supply graph*

Except that supply is being artificially inflated due to regulatory barriers to entry.

BoilerUP 05-21-2022 09:20 AM

Decreased supply = higher price, increased supply = lower price. To claim reducing minimum requirements, therefore increasing pilot supply, would not negatively impact wages is…not accurate.

Besides, most decent professions have “regulatory barriers to entry” - ours just happens to coincide with experience, not education.

dualinput 05-21-2022 09:39 AM


Originally Posted by SonicFlyer (Post 3427238)
Except that supply is being artificially inflated due to regulatory barriers to entry.

Why don’t we just let some middle schoolers become pilots without high school. I mean really why have any barriers to entry at all.

This is Airline PILOT central not airline owners central. Make the barriers to entry high and wages will go up and then you’ll have more people chasing the career. Shortage gone.

rickair7777 05-21-2022 09:40 AM


Originally Posted by BoilerUP (Post 3427243)
Besides, most decent professions have “regulatory barriers to entry” - ours just happens to coincide with experience, not education.

In our case, experience IS the best education... nobody's come up with an academic curriculum which is a good substitute for experience. Despite what riddle, et al might claim :rolleyes:

Actually doctors have to get a lot of clinical experience as well after med school, and they used to get paid $30K and work 100 hours/week while doing it (conditions have improved recently). The more lucrative specialties require even more years of clinical experience as an intern.

dualinput 05-21-2022 09:45 AM


Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 3427256)
In our case, experience IS the best education... nobody's come up with an academic curriculum which is a good substitute for experience. Despite what riddle, et al might claim :rolleyes:

Actually doctors have to get a lot of clinical experience as well after med school, and they used to get paid $30K and work 100 hours/week while doing it (conditions have improved recently). The more lucrative specialties require even more years of clinical experience as an intern.

Sounds similar to CFI until 1500hrs. Just seems like we need to make the money a lot higher after the 1500hrs and then ROI will make sense

PineappleXpres 05-21-2022 09:46 AM


Originally Posted by SonicFlyer (Post 3426701)
So the unions don't want to allow an extension of retirement age, and they don't want to lower the artificially high entry barrier, so what solutions are they actually coming up with to help solve at least the current short term acute pilot shortage?

The short term is similar to airlines slashing summer schedules they could not fly. It was the prudent BUISNESS decision. Similarly, slowing growth until the labor supply catches up is the prudent thing to do. ALPA is not responsible for reckless growth and therefore should oppose the proposed solutions.

rickair7777 05-21-2022 09:51 AM


Originally Posted by dualinput (Post 3427261)
Sounds similar to CFI until 1500hrs. Just seems like we need to make the money a lot higher after the 1500hrs and then ROI will make sense

Or airlines pay for initial training and/or time building.

I would argue that's a better solution from a business perspective because you're not then stuck with lucrative CBA's until the next you can justify chapter 11. Paid training can be throttled as necessary based on supply and demand.

If the offer free training with a housing and/or stipend until employed at a regional they'd get plenty of applicants, more than they need I'm sure.

SonicFlyer 05-21-2022 10:12 AM

The fundamental problem is that the aviation market is overregulated. These problems are caused by government and will not be fixed until government gets out of the way.

dualinput 05-21-2022 10:18 AM


Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 3427267)
Or airlines pay for initial training and/or time building.

I would argue that's a better solution from a business perspective because you're not then stuck with lucrative CBA's until the next you can justify chapter 11. Paid training can be throttled as necessary based on supply and demand.

If the offer free training with a housing and/or stipend until employed at a regional they'd get plenty of applicants, more than they need I'm sure.

The training will cost more than the CBAs. Let the new pilot pay to train themselves and then they can choose what airline works best for them and the most lucrative CBA being a motivating factor instead of paying for their training and getting servitude.

We are airline pilots did we forget. The idea is to pull as much compensation out of these places as possible. Let the managers run the companies because their other goal is pulling out as much cash as possible for themselves.

The spirit CEO gets $12M in bonus for closing the frontier merger so tells JetBlue they aren’t interested and also they don’t expect any increase in pilot cost for five years.

PineappleXpres 05-21-2022 10:19 AM


Originally Posted by SonicFlyer (Post 3427282)
The fundamental problem is that the aviation market is overregulated. These problems are caused by government and will not be fixed until government gets out of the way.

You’re so silly :-P


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