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-   -   Let Experienced Pilots Fly Act (Age 67) (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/138687-let-experienced-pilots-fly-act-age-67-a.html)

ZapBrannigan 07-27-2022 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hobbit64 (Post 3467628)
Funny you don’t mention Gluttony…

Yup. 👆

The pigs will feed at the trough for as long as farmer lets them. Meanwhile career progression for everyone else grinds to a halt. Again.

Opteryx 07-27-2022 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 3466922)
Should the 60 plus ASAP anytime they keep a youngster out of trouble? Should they ASAP it when my 30 something magenta line follower goes out 7 miles after being cleared for the visual downwind because she is afraid to turn in before the marker? Should they ask for a new copilot when the one they have is terrified to fly without auto throttles?

Smiling broadly....

Jdub2 07-27-2022 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnBurke (Post 3467582)
Lots of entitlement floating around here.

"Get out of the way, old man. I want your job."

Now that I’ve benefited from a career of retirements ahead of me, it’s time to alter the rules of the game to benefit me

hercretired 07-27-2022 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnBurke (Post 3467582)
Lots of entitlement floating around here.

"Get out of the way, old man. I want your job."

Said old man got his job because the guy before him retired at, drum roll, age 60.

:rolleyes:

WhistlePig 07-27-2022 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tesla S (Post 3467566)
This will pass, no need to take it personally or whine about it,

Will the democrats really stand firm against legislation that will benefit the traveling public in the near term? Doubtful.

By pass, if you mean fade away, then yes it will. But this Bill will not pass, it has no meaningful support.

hercretired 07-27-2022 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wingedbeast (Post 3467702)
Got to love all the coping from people saying this has no chance of passing. This can and will easily become bipartisan, there is nothing either party loses by supporting this "look we did something" bill.

you might tell that to ALPA and APA and to the Secretary of DOT himself

But, sure, this will pass

Opteryx 07-27-2022 07:48 AM

I must say there are a lot of generalizations here. It disappoints me to see so many apparently young pilots trashing so many 60+ pilots. I think some of that is surely based on true experiences but more than likely the few experiences get inflated to over-generalization, as is human nature.

That being said, it is true there is (generally speaking) cognitive decline with age. However, it can be slowed, and even reversed to a certain extent. But that takes active intent on a person's part, and just doing the same old thing every day doesn't cut it. One has to exercise one's mind just like exercising one's muscles keeps them from atrophying. Some activities that stop or reverse cognitive decline generally involve exercising the brain such as:
- Learn a new language
- Learn to play a musical instrument
- Have a lot of meaningful social interactions (online doesn't count)
- Pursue a new education degree
- Learn a new hobby (one that requires mental and motor skill)
- Learn to play a new sport
...and so many more

Obviously the word "learn" is in there a lot - use it or lose it.

From my own experience, I'm in my 50s and had a boring desk job for years after flying in the military. I felt my own cognitive decline happening slightly AND wanted to get back into flying jets for a living. Keep in mind that I had not stopped flying, just did civilian flying for the fun of it and stayed current and got several new ratings. So I got a job with an airline. Initial training was HARD - which was surprising to me because nothing had ever been hard for me before. I had to concentrate a lot more on memorizing things - even to the point of remembering the darn frequency that I was just told to go to - but here's the thing - I could feel my brain/memory getting better. I had headaches - never had them before - because I was stretching those old synapses that had laid dormant for so long. Got through training OK - better than some younger than me and worse than others. I would say on the line I am comparable favorably to the average young pilot, AND I have a lot of experience that they don't have.

Bottom line is we shouldn't generalize too much. If there is a problem with 60+ pilots still on the line who shouldn't be, that is a problem with the airlines' training/check programs. That annual training and those check rides should weed out those who can't hack it any more. Isn't that primarily what it's for? If they are not doing that then those programs should be re-vamped.

If pilots can pass a rigorous medical examination, and pass a checkride that actually tests their abilities, then who cares what age they are?

I need to learn to play an instrument now - but who has the time for that as a new airline hire?

khergan 07-27-2022 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Opteryx (Post 3467735)
I must say there are a lot of generalizations here. It disappoints me to see so many apparently young pilots trashing so many 60+ pilots. I think some of that is surely based on true experiences but more than likely the few experiences get inflated to over-generalization, as is human nature.

That being said, it is true there is (generally speaking) cognitive decline with age. However, it can be slowed, and even reversed to a certain extent. But that takes active intent on a person's part, and just doing the same old thing every day doesn't cut it. One has to exercise one's mind just like exercising one's muscles keeps them from atrophying. Some activities that stop or reverse cognitive decline generally involve exercising the brain such as:
- Learn a new language
- Learn to play a musical instrument
- Have a lot of meaningful social interactions (online doesn't count)
- Pursue a new education degree
- Learn a new hobby (one that requires mental and motor skill)
- Learn to play a new sport
...and so many more

Obviously the word "learn" is in there a lot - use it or lose it.

From my own experience, I'm in my 50s and had a boring desk job for years after flying in the military. I felt my own cognitive decline happening slightly AND wanted to get back into flying jets for a living. Keep in mind that I had not stopped flying, just did civilian flying for the fun of it and stayed current and got several new ratings. So I got a job with an airline. Initial training was HARD - which was surprising to me because nothing had ever been hard for me before. I had to concentrate a lot more on memorizing things - even to the point of remembering the darn frequency that I was just told to go to - but here's the thing - I could feel my brain/memory getting better. I had headaches - never had them before - because I was stretching those old synapses that had laid dormant for so long. Got through training OK - better than some younger than me and worse than others. I would say on the line I am comparable favorably to the average young pilot, AND I have a lot of experience that they don't have.

Bottom line is we shouldn't generalize too much. If there is a problem with 60+ pilots still on the line who shouldn't be, that is a problem with the airlines' training/check programs. That annual training and those check rides should weed out those who can't hack it any more. Isn't that primarily what it's for? If they are not doing that then those programs should be re-vamped.

If pilots can pass a rigorous medical examination, and pass a checkride that actually tests their abilities, then who cares what age they are?

I need to learn to play an instrument now - but who has the time for that as a new airline hire?

You boomers forget that in large part your generation was the beneficiaries of the 60 age cap. That forced massive amount of people out of the airlines into part 135 or retirement and allowed you to have the multimillion dollar careers you currently enjoy. But now it's "ageism" or we are being unfair when the same process is happening to you.

There are plenty of activities to do to "work your brain". Go learn tennis or golf. Fly for Netjets or Flexjet. Make forts with your piles of airline money. Do anything except continue to whine and pull the ladder of opportunity up behind you. That's what younger generations are asking for.

Opteryx 07-27-2022 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khergan (Post 3467747)
You boomers forget that in large part your generation was the beneficiaries of the 60 age cap.

Wow - looks like you didn't even read what I wrote and yet you quoted it. How do I personally benefit from any age cap? If I started flying with the airlines in my 50s, I will not cap out on anything - probably not even make captain. And it seems you are not just generalizing but over-simplifying a very complex issue.

The fact that you see me personally as a threat to your own career progression, knowing the situation that I just spelled out for you, shows either an incredible lack of understanding, or you have the attention span of a fly and couldn't read my entire post before spouting off.


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