Is commuting worth it?
01-30-2024, 06:23 AM
#71
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Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 360
I drive 90 minutes to work but still live in the woods. I commuted at past airlines. For me, I will never, ever commute again. It's not worth it. Life is too short to waste literal years in the back of an airplane going to/from work, not to mention the stress. Also, the hotels/crashpads? No thank you. I'm not in college anymore so I don't need to "hang with the boys" in the pad, and I don't want to spend even less time in my bed than I already do.
It's also a seniority boost. I have no issue doing 5am shows or ending late, and getting the good trips, while my buddies who commute that are the same seniority as me have to settle for less desireable trips or spend an extra day on the front/back end.
It's also a seniority boost. I have no issue doing 5am shows or ending late, and getting the good trips, while my buddies who commute that are the same seniority as me have to settle for less desireable trips or spend an extra day on the front/back end.
01-30-2024, 06:28 AM
#72
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Joined APC: Jan 2020
Position: Blue Juice Taste Tester
Posts: 1,336
Originally Posted by AYLflyer
I drive 90 minutes to work but still live in the woods. I commuted at past airlines. For me, I will never, ever commute again. It's not worth it. Life is too short to waste literal years in the back of an airplane going to/from work, not to mention the stress. Also, the hotels/crashpads? No thank you. I'm not in college anymore so I don't need to "hang with the boys" in the pad, and I don't want to spend even less time in my bed than I already do.
It's also a seniority boost. I have no issue doing 5am shows or ending late, and getting the good trips, while my buddies who commute that are the same seniority as me have to settle for less desireable trips or spend an extra day on the front/back end.
It's also a seniority boost. I have no issue doing 5am shows or ending late, and getting the good trips, while my buddies who commute that are the same seniority as me have to settle for less desireable trips or spend an extra day on the front/back end.
01-30-2024, 09:30 AM
#74
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,067
Originally Posted by raisins
So I guess the final answer to the OP is......maybe, it depends. No one can answer but you.
It's all a trade off and only you can answer what is important in your and your family's life. As a commuter, spending a little extra time on an airplane at the beginning and end of a trip is worth it for the happiness my family and I get on the days I'm home. I don't fly as many hours as most in-base guys and also can easily fly things in other bases as well due to my location. There's nothing that would distress my family more than moving them to any of the domiciles.
As for a 2-3 hour drive, that's a no brainer. Drive. Every time. That's an easy drive compared to a commute.
01-30-2024, 10:42 AM
#75
On Reserve
Joined APC: Dec 2022
Posts: 20
As others have mentioned, everyone’s situation is different.
I’m not a commuter, but I think I’d actually be happier becoming one. I’m in NYC to live in base at my airline (B6); the convenience is great as is the scheduling flexibility it grants, but when you factor in the higher cost of living and taxes in NY, I often feel I’m just working more to overcome those costs. Accounting for the extra work, I’m likely spending more time away from home than I am as a commuter who works their normal line, and probably not keeping that much more due to the insane costs associated with living here (not to mention, the general stress with living in NYC). This is likely more unique for a city/base such as NYC, but I don't think commuting is as quite a binary decision as some make it out to be.
I’m not a commuter, but I think I’d actually be happier becoming one. I’m in NYC to live in base at my airline (B6); the convenience is great as is the scheduling flexibility it grants, but when you factor in the higher cost of living and taxes in NY, I often feel I’m just working more to overcome those costs. Accounting for the extra work, I’m likely spending more time away from home than I am as a commuter who works their normal line, and probably not keeping that much more due to the insane costs associated with living here (not to mention, the general stress with living in NYC). This is likely more unique for a city/base such as NYC, but I don't think commuting is as quite a binary decision as some make it out to be.
01-31-2024, 05:19 AM
#76
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,213
AA pilot commuting for decades from CLT to JFK/MIA/JFK. Trip the next day. Tells his wife - "do you know what I have to do today?" (day before commuting stuff). "No, what?" "NOTHING!!!" Not commuting? "I do nothing the day before, or the day of, my trip. I just go to work." No need to think about anything - no flights, no loads, no weather, etc. Post USAIR merger he was based in CLT. It literally gave him at least another whole day in his life. He used to bid for Sunday's off to go to church with his wife/family. After being based in CLT he BID Sunday trips. Huh? "Church, long lunch with friends, go home, chill for a bit, fly to Europe. The afternoon is kind of wasted anyway. Now I just fly on Sunday. Gives me another whole day off at home."
I drove 7 hrs r/t for 18-19 years. It was okay. W/b Captain vs n/b Captain 50-90 minutes away. When w/b Captain became available 1+15 hrs away it was the best news. Three day Europe trip? Golf, trip, golf. Three day trip and 2 rounds of golf. Do that 4-5x a month it's 4-5 trips, 8-10 rds of golf, AND 15-18 days O.F.F. Don't golf? Substitute anything else. Not commuting added 40-50 free daytime hours to my life.
Guys going back and forth about family. I get commuting for family. Is commuting worth it to live in a 'better' town? How bad are the 'burbs around his base? What's 30, 60, 90 minutes get you? What a single person wants can be LIGHT YEARS different than what a married person wants. Guy rushing my ANG unit. I showed him around - "this is where some of the bachelors live, here's where the junior/newly married/waiting to get an airline job guys live. Get the major job? Guys move to 2 general areas. Fast forward 8 years and he's a neighbor.
He said he's tring to set down a base/foundation for a future. Sounds like there's not an extended family, or even wife, in the decision process. Why'd I drive 3 hours? Because I didn't project the future better. If I had I would have moved a lot closer (1:45 - 2 hrs) from the w/b base. I'd already moved to a final home and didn't want to move again so I sucked it up and drove (3 hrs - 18-19 yrs) or commuted (2-3.5 hrs for 3-yrs...driving is better). Family was planted and secure. Me? Wore me out. Doable? Absolutely. Sucks in comparison to a :15 to 1-1.5 hr drive. I'd be very leery building a life that far from home. Hard to believe there's not a closer option that's worth the tradeoff.
I drove 7 hrs r/t for 18-19 years. It was okay. W/b Captain vs n/b Captain 50-90 minutes away. When w/b Captain became available 1+15 hrs away it was the best news. Three day Europe trip? Golf, trip, golf. Three day trip and 2 rounds of golf. Do that 4-5x a month it's 4-5 trips, 8-10 rds of golf, AND 15-18 days O.F.F. Don't golf? Substitute anything else. Not commuting added 40-50 free daytime hours to my life.
Guys going back and forth about family. I get commuting for family. Is commuting worth it to live in a 'better' town? How bad are the 'burbs around his base? What's 30, 60, 90 minutes get you? What a single person wants can be LIGHT YEARS different than what a married person wants. Guy rushing my ANG unit. I showed him around - "this is where some of the bachelors live, here's where the junior/newly married/waiting to get an airline job guys live. Get the major job? Guys move to 2 general areas. Fast forward 8 years and he's a neighbor.
He said he's tring to set down a base/foundation for a future. Sounds like there's not an extended family, or even wife, in the decision process. Why'd I drive 3 hours? Because I didn't project the future better. If I had I would have moved a lot closer (1:45 - 2 hrs) from the w/b base. I'd already moved to a final home and didn't want to move again so I sucked it up and drove (3 hrs - 18-19 yrs) or commuted (2-3.5 hrs for 3-yrs...driving is better). Family was planted and secure. Me? Wore me out. Doable? Absolutely. Sucks in comparison to a :15 to 1-1.5 hr drive. I'd be very leery building a life that far from home. Hard to believe there's not a closer option that's worth the tradeoff.
Last edited by Sliceback; 01-31-2024 at 05:21 AM. Reason: added "I do notihing"
01-31-2024, 05:39 AM
#77
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Joined APC: Jan 2024
Posts: 141
Originally Posted by CBreezy
or "it's like chopping your foot off."
01-31-2024, 07:03 AM
#79
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,160
As others have said, it depends on both you and a LOT of other things. The frequency on city pairs, equipment size on that city pair, weather, etc.
I've commuted most of my career. Single leg, multi leg, on FedEx/UPS (with a pause for the overnight sort; convinced me that I want nothing to do with cargo ops), etc. We moved a lot due to both of us being military (wife was active duty) so I got a chance to see what works and doesn't work.
For me, the worst commute was on FedEx/UPS. It was always multi leg.
Second worst was any multi leg commute; done several of those.
Next was a city pair where the flights were mostly full and had most mostly RJs (TUS-IAH and SAT-IAD for me).
Easiest commute for me was LAS to SFO/LAX/DEN. Tons of frequency and once you figured out which days to avoid the crowded flights, it was easy peasy.
I also had more money to spend than my counterparts who lived in base. Between my wife's salary, mil pension and my salary, mil pension, I saved at least $30K/yr in state income tax alone. Plus the cost of living is much lower in LAS. And I could pick up premium trips both in base and out of base easily. I would check flights when premium popped up in SFO, LAX, DEN, and IAH and if it was an easy flight, I'd pick up out of base premium.
I prefer doing a commute over driving a long distance, but that's going to vary depending on the person.
Since you're talking about regionals, I highly recommend you commute just to learn the ins and outs of commuting and if you have the temperment to commute. I always thought that people overdramatized commuting; it can be terrible but usually isn't nearly as bad as some make it out to be.
Would I commute ever again? I'm considering it to be able to fly different equipment.
I've commuted most of my career. Single leg, multi leg, on FedEx/UPS (with a pause for the overnight sort; convinced me that I want nothing to do with cargo ops), etc. We moved a lot due to both of us being military (wife was active duty) so I got a chance to see what works and doesn't work.
For me, the worst commute was on FedEx/UPS. It was always multi leg.
Second worst was any multi leg commute; done several of those.
Next was a city pair where the flights were mostly full and had most mostly RJs (TUS-IAH and SAT-IAD for me).
Easiest commute for me was LAS to SFO/LAX/DEN. Tons of frequency and once you figured out which days to avoid the crowded flights, it was easy peasy.
I also had more money to spend than my counterparts who lived in base. Between my wife's salary, mil pension and my salary, mil pension, I saved at least $30K/yr in state income tax alone. Plus the cost of living is much lower in LAS. And I could pick up premium trips both in base and out of base easily. I would check flights when premium popped up in SFO, LAX, DEN, and IAH and if it was an easy flight, I'd pick up out of base premium.
I prefer doing a commute over driving a long distance, but that's going to vary depending on the person.
Since you're talking about regionals, I highly recommend you commute just to learn the ins and outs of commuting and if you have the temperment to commute. I always thought that people overdramatized commuting; it can be terrible but usually isn't nearly as bad as some make it out to be.
Would I commute ever again? I'm considering it to be able to fly different equipment.
01-31-2024, 07:32 AM
#80
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Joined APC: Jan 2023
Posts: 1,232
Originally Posted by ancman
Only if you let it. I’ve commuted for most of my career. I rarely stress out over it anymore. If I can’t get to work, I use the commuter clause and forget about it. If I can’t get home right away, I don’t let that get to me either.
I try my best bidding-wise to avoid long duty periods right before or after commutes as well.
I try my best bidding-wise to avoid long duty periods right before or after commutes as well.
Originally Posted by highfarfast
Not all commutes are the same and some I'd say are worth it and some aren't, given there's a choice, but not everyone would make the same choice given the same data. And not all people are cut out to commute either. I have an easy commute and I also don't sweat the details going either way so I find it super easy. There's another guy that commutes out of the same city to the same airline as me and I swear he's gonna die an early death.
Originally Posted by myrkridia
You're bound to get a wide range of answers because, as you point out, worth is subjective.
I've been a commuter for two different airlines and lived in base for one of them. There's only one reason I commute or would recommend anyone commute: family. My wife and kids are happy where we live and I don't want to mess with that unless my wife is 100% on board with moving.
There are commuters who don't stress a whole lot about getting to work or getting back home. There's always another flight. On the other hand, some really let it get to them and it shows. The commute you describe doesn't sound too bad, you have options in a pinch.
I've been a commuter for two different airlines and lived in base for one of them. There's only one reason I commute or would recommend anyone commute: family. My wife and kids are happy where we live and I don't want to mess with that unless my wife is 100% on board with moving.
There are commuters who don't stress a whole lot about getting to work or getting back home. There's always another flight. On the other hand, some really let it get to them and it shows. The commute you describe doesn't sound too bad, you have options in a pinch.
Originally Posted by CBreezy
Thanks for a rational post. Too many people here are injecting way too much emotion into this, including one who is comparing commuting with cutting your leg off.
Commuting is a mindset and if you have a positive attitude, it really is just as doable as not commuting. It really wasn't even a decision for me. If I chose to move to base, I would be uprooting my family from our support system. We have family close and an established network of friends. There is nothing more selfish than moving your family to a place they know no one and spend half the month away from them...all so it's just a little easier to get to work and have slightly better trips.
Commuting is a mindset and if you have a positive attitude, it really is just as doable as not commuting. It really wasn't even a decision for me. If I chose to move to base, I would be uprooting my family from our support system. We have family close and an established network of friends. There is nothing more selfish than moving your family to a place they know no one and spend half the month away from them...all so it's just a little easier to get to work and have slightly better trips.
Originally Posted by PRS Guitars
I agree, it's better not to commute, but you're wrong about the "best case" scenario...maybe you meant to say "worst case"? I'm not commuting on days off very often, maybe one or two days a year when I miss the last flight home. I can hold a commutable line though, and when sitting reserve at AA never have to commute out on my last day off because they can't give us a trip before noon on our first day.
Second, you did it for a month or two, it takes some time to adjust to it and learn the tricks of the trade. Yes better to live in base, also, try to live in a place you like, if you can.
Having conceded that not commuting is better, let me just add as a few others have said. It's not horrible, it's not the end of the world. I actually have very high QOL and am home a lot. I don't stress about it going to work or coming home, don't obsess about it...it just is what I do currently.
I tried moving to a base, unfortunately I really didn't like it there, so much so that I thought, "hell I'd rather commute than live in this city". We have other bases that I'd probably like, but rather than roll the dice on that and move the kids again...we went back to our old neighborhood. Maybe someday when the kids are grown, we'll try another base...maybe not.
Second, you did it for a month or two, it takes some time to adjust to it and learn the tricks of the trade. Yes better to live in base, also, try to live in a place you like, if you can.
Having conceded that not commuting is better, let me just add as a few others have said. It's not horrible, it's not the end of the world. I actually have very high QOL and am home a lot. I don't stress about it going to work or coming home, don't obsess about it...it just is what I do currently.
I tried moving to a base, unfortunately I really didn't like it there, so much so that I thought, "hell I'd rather commute than live in this city". We have other bases that I'd probably like, but rather than roll the dice on that and move the kids again...we went back to our old neighborhood. Maybe someday when the kids are grown, we'll try another base...maybe not.
Originally Posted by ancman
Commuting is over-dramatized by many, IMHO. I’ve lived in base and I’ve commuted. I’m much happier living where I want to live, and plan to continue commuting for the rest of my career.
I get more quality time at home than my neighbors with typical 9-5 jobs. I also spend more time at home than many pilots at my company who live in base. I try to bid layovers at home and trips that start/end with DHs. I drop/swap trips often, bunch them together, and ideally only have to commute to work 2 or 3 times per month.
Would I make more money from this job living in base? Absolutely. But even flying 80% of an average in-base pilot’s schedule provides more income than 95% of American jobs. I’m perfectly happy with that, especially when I can live wherever I choose.
I get more quality time at home than my neighbors with typical 9-5 jobs. I also spend more time at home than many pilots at my company who live in base. I try to bid layovers at home and trips that start/end with DHs. I drop/swap trips often, bunch them together, and ideally only have to commute to work 2 or 3 times per month.
Would I make more money from this job living in base? Absolutely. But even flying 80% of an average in-base pilot’s schedule provides more income than 95% of American jobs. I’m perfectly happy with that, especially when I can live wherever I choose.
I'd say that if you have a base, in a city you like to be in or near, than living "in base" would be a great choice. As the posters above have indicated it's a personal decision. For me and my family commuting works and I really don't mind it.
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