Well, its time to get involved with the unions and take a stand............ The reason why our wages are so low, is because we all (majority) approved it..... Management is going to do to us what we allow them............ I hope the CAL guys stick their pathetic contract down Larry's throat........... If anything is going to keep us down, it will be an apathetic pilot group, its time to stand up to management, and it couldn't be a better time..................

 

You are exactly right. Let's gather our gonads and kick butt. No more zero sum agreements. We want net gains. We deserve it, but only if we take it. Personally, I'm tired of looking at the flight attendants with envious eyes. ("Wow, you ladies and guys got a majority together to vote 'no'") Hopefully, someday we will find a pilot group that will do the same.....

 

Envious eyes? You gotta be kidding. Maybe you should go be a flight attendant........

 

You know what he meant. We may not want to be FAs, truck drivers, etc - but we should absolutely emulate any labor group that is unified and focused on bettering their pay & working conditions...

 

Thats why we need to get rid of the apathy thats been going on and get involved with the unions and start educating people

 

like LCC's who don't think they deserve raises because they fly for a LCC...

 

I know EXACTLY what he meant, but unfortunately we have a LOT of pilots banging the drum, screaming bloody murder, and then voting for the anti-labor candidates that blame labor for all the woes of the industry, and see nothing wrong with the CEO's and oil companies walking away with it all. Hard to get better pay and working conditions when so many vote against the people trying to get it for you.

 

Since you have it all figured out, please enlighten us. Just exactly what is a LCC now days anyway? Is it post bankruptcy carriers? Is it USair who uses LCC on the NYSE? Is it so called "legacy" carriers with pay levels that they agreed to? If your company management has been dishonest with you than hold them accountable. Pay raises are justified when the company and the unions agree on a contract each can live with. So which is it? Ask yourself if you have a contract with benefits that you can live with. If the answer is "no" then get to work. Competition will always be there. Please quit pointing to other airlines and justifying or blaming your position in the market place on them.

 

Exactly where do you think the legacy payscales fell to...just around LCC wages. The legacies in the past always tried to keep the wages going forward. Kind of like playing leap frog. What have the LCC's giving us in regards to a better contract. Let me answer that for you...it's nothing that I have ever heard of and for a fact it isn't pay. Southwest leading the pack is by default. I am waiting to see what southwest will do now that they have the lead vs. playing follow the leader. I read one guy say that it takes time to bring the wages up and his carrier has been around for 30 years. that's not a start up anymore. If you don't think that other airlines payrates help or hurt negotiations that's extremely naive. I'm sure southwest, airtran, jetbue, spirit and other LCC management will never bring up how the legacies have lowered their employee cost during negotiations.

 

WELL said.

Tom