Nothing like throwing a hand gernade at the Brown guys.

If you can find the legacy payrates for 2000, I would be curious how they stack up to Big Brown.

Thanks in advance,

FF

 

They were much higher than we have now. I hope you knew that, or is this why the Contract passed. The rates for a narrow body at UAL and DL were around $265, wide body went up to $318 an hour. Puts are 2007 $223/hr to shame.

 

So True. We screwed up. COLA raise only.

 

I did not mean to put down UPS. I know they are one of the best airlines the work for. I just was a little upset with whoever made the comment about "Well UPS made that much money last year... what's your point?"

These legacy pilots who believe their carriers cannot afford pre 9/11 contracts need to see that their carriers are turning profits. They are making hundreds of millions of dollars a year, and that is with record high fuel prices. I didn't like how someone from UPS coming in and making a comment to put down the rest of the airline industry. We all know your airline is making lots of money. Good for you guys. Now come next contract for FedEx and UPS (once the legacy carriers have negotiated much improved contracts), you guys have an opportunity to set the record for a contract. I just wanted to remind you that you are not there...yet.

I think you guys negotiated a good contract given the circumstances (all other carriers below your rates before negotiation). However, you did set the bar higher. I believe that once the legacies get their paycuts back, you guys (FedEx and UPS) will be able to set the "ultimate" bar for the industry.


Hey, 1000th post!

 

1000th, post eh? Officer Smith will be by to see you shortly! Congrats.



Tom

cop beat down 22.gif

 

Hmmm. I'll probably get in trouble if I get into posts like these, though I found it a little amusing to go back through your past posts and see that this comment isn't at all out of line with your norm.

I will throw this ball into your court though: Since you seem to be so adamant about LCCs dragging down pilot salaries, how bout you put your money where your mouth is and cite some data? You know, say, 20 years back, comparing average WN pilot annual pay (not just looking up their hourly pay for that year, but taking into account rules) to average <pick your airline> or <average of all legacies> annual pay? Oh and project that for every year in between. Show that not only does a Legacy pay better, but it pays better on average over 20 years.

 

If you look at flybycable's posts he/she is usually just trying to stir the pot....

 

why would you get into trouble by responding? I don't have the info that I had back in 1992 when I was comparing southwest vs the majors. I'm not that big of a pack rat. My buddy thought about going and the only positive thing he could come up with at the time, was that it was a quicker upgrade. Kind of like today with jetblue, airtran, virgin.

If you are saying that the LCC's don't have an impact on the majors I find that quit interesting. just name me one LCC that has ever raised the bar. I'm betting you can't. show me what good they have done for the industry.

 

Hi Nash,

I may have misunderstood your response, but what I thought you meant was, that me, not remembering the payrates 7 1/2 years ago was the reason why the UPS pilot contract passed in 2006. In addition, that UPS pilots are making less now than their counterparts did in 2000.

In 2000, I was a 767 F/O at TWA on 5th year pay making far less than the $125/hr or so that a 5th year UPS F/O makes on any equipment. In years 2001-2002, I was on the American Airlines pay scales as a 6th/7th year 767 Intl F/O making approx $124/hr, again slightly less than what a 6th/7th year UPS F/O makes.

If memorey serves me correct, Delta, United and USAir had the top three W-2 contracts on or around 2000 with some of their payrates/hr. greater than those at UPS. Being a TWA/American Airlines employee during 2000-2003, I can tell you their rates were less than UPS' rates of today. I wasn't sure about the rest NWA, CAL, SWA etc, that's why I asked if anyone could post them.

Nash, I always enjoy your posts. They're well-thought and informative. It puzzles me to think that you are inferring that I voted for the UPS pilot contract of 2006 when I was hired in Feb 2007. A cheap shot by you, which was rather unexpected.

Tailwinds,

FF

 

Ryanne,

The UPS person that posted that comment usually posts inflammatory remarks to "stir the pot". Hopefully, his remarks won't be viewed as representative of the UPS pilot group, because they aren't.

In my opinion your post is well-intentioned. Airlines can afford pay raises to the employee groups that had to shoulder the rebuilding of the airline industry the last 5-6 years. I have been unemployed twice, so I'm familiar with "the shouldering", whilst I watch CEOs drink champagne and send their kids to Switzerland for bon bons.

I would take you to task that the current UPS pay rates are <in your words> still well below most legacy carriers in 2000. However, it's not worth the rock-throwing or ankle-biting. I understand your point.

I look forward to your response, and hopefully brighter futures for the working groups of aviation are ahead.

Regards,

Flifast

ps. 100th post..well done...looking forward to the next 1000.