737NG Pilots...
11-06-2007 | 11:03 AM
#31
HOSED BY PBS AGAIN
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,713
Likes: 0
If they already have the most "up to date avionics" why don't you guys use the bottom screen? Using it to hold what the printer spits out dosen't count.
I don't think you can ever have too much info landing when the RVR is 600,600,600...
The reason CAL doesn't have HUDs is the same reason most CAL 73's only have one jumpseat. $$$
I don't think you can ever have too much info landing when the RVR is 600,600,600...
The reason CAL doesn't have HUDs is the same reason most CAL 73's only have one jumpseat. $$$
11-06-2007 | 12:02 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Could they get down to III B or C with a HUD? I don't know if the 737 can do it at all. How low does Alaska get? Anyway lots of other airlines have the two jumpseats. The same airlines have the HUDs. I was just connecting the dots...
11-06-2007 | 03:29 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
From: B767 First Officer
At DAL we can use the HGS to fly a CAT III on one engine...which is not possible with the fail-passive dual channel autoland. It also allows a 300rvr takeoff.
Back in 2000 when DAL had a ton of cash, the plan was to have dual HUDs on everything and use them as your PFD, freeing up the other LCDs for future use as electronic flight bags, situational displays, etc. We were even going to put them on the Mad Dogs.
But things have changed.
Also they don't make a round-dial version of a HUD which is why CAL probably doesn't have them.
Back in 2000 when DAL had a ton of cash, the plan was to have dual HUDs on everything and use them as your PFD, freeing up the other LCDs for future use as electronic flight bags, situational displays, etc. We were even going to put them on the Mad Dogs.
But things have changed.
Also they don't make a round-dial version of a HUD which is why CAL probably doesn't have them.
11-07-2007 | 03:55 AM
#34
HOSED BY PBS AGAIN
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,713
Likes: 0
At DAL we can use the HGS to fly a CAT III on one engine...which is not possible with the fail-passive dual channel autoland. It also allows a 300rvr takeoff.
Back in 2000 when DAL had a ton of cash, the plan was to have dual HUDs on everything and use them as your PFD, freeing up the other LCDs for future use as electronic flight bags, situational displays, etc. We were even going to put them on the Mad Dogs.
But things have changed.
Also they don't make a round-dial version of a HUD which is why CAL probably doesn't have them.
Back in 2000 when DAL had a ton of cash, the plan was to have dual HUDs on everything and use them as your PFD, freeing up the other LCDs for future use as electronic flight bags, situational displays, etc. We were even going to put them on the Mad Dogs.
But things have changed.
Also they don't make a round-dial version of a HUD which is why CAL probably doesn't have them.
In thirty one years I've never even lost an engine (helos AND airplanes no less). In 10 years with CAL I've done (just guessing) probably 3 or 4 ACTUAL , honest to GOD CAT II approaches. Seems like having and keeping another 450 HUD systems would be a real waste of money....JMHO. The airplanes seem to do well without them and I think if I'm down to one engine and the WX is that bad, I sure as heck don't want to do a CAT III approach. I like the OLD round dial airplanes, they're easier to land (and most have two jumpseats)..................
11-07-2007 | 03:56 AM
#35
HOSED BY PBS AGAIN
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,713
Likes: 0
11-07-2007 | 09:59 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 260
Likes: 0
From: 737 FO
We go down to 600/600 with autoland or the HUD.
11-08-2007 | 03:54 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,042
Likes: 0
From: 737 CA MIA
And just how many single engine CAT III approaches has one done in a career??? In thirty one years I've never even lost an engine (helos AND airplanes no less). In 10 years with CAL I've done (just guessing) probably 3 or 4 ACTUAL , honest to GOD CAT II approaches. Seems like having and keeping another 450 HUD systems would be a real waste of money....JMHO. The airplanes seem to do well without them and I think if I'm down to one engine and the WX is that bad, I sure as heck don't want to do a CAT III approach. I like the OLD round dial airplanes, they're easier to land (and most have two jumpseats)..................
In thirty one years I've never even lost an engine (helos AND airplanes no less). In 10 years with CAL I've done (just guessing) probably 3 or 4 ACTUAL , honest to GOD CAT II approaches. Seems like having and keeping another 450 HUD systems would be a real waste of money....JMHO. The airplanes seem to do well without them and I think if I'm down to one engine and the WX is that bad, I sure as heck don't want to do a CAT III approach. I like the OLD round dial airplanes, they're easier to land (and most have two jumpseats)..................The point of the endorsement for HUD's or HGS is that they are Virtually manitenance free.
West US cities SFO, SEA, PDX and more routinely have Cat 3 wx. and on different airplanes Maint can spend 20 minutes or more on FGC confidence checks each day. That's 20 minutes those mechanics can spend doing real maint on other aircraft. That is probably why Management belives the Huds/HGS pay for themselves in two years time.
I've only seen a HUD inop on two occasions. I've seen countless a/c downgraded to Cat 1 on a weekly basis.
11-08-2007 | 04:00 AM
#38
HOSED BY PBS AGAIN
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,713
Likes: 0
That is a great career. I've had numerous engine malfunc's and 2 complete failures on Boeings.
The point of the endorsement for HUD's or HGS is that they are Virtually manitenance free.
West US cities SFO, SEA, PDX and more routinely have Cat 3 wx. and on different airplanes Maint can spend 20 minutes or more on FGC confidence checks each day. That's 20 minutes those mechanics can spend doing real maint on other aircraft. That is probably why Management belives the Huds/HGS pay for themselves in two years time.
I've only seen a HUD inop on two occasions. I've seen countless a/c downgraded to Cat 1 on a weekly basis.
The point of the endorsement for HUD's or HGS is that they are Virtually manitenance free.
West US cities SFO, SEA, PDX and more routinely have Cat 3 wx. and on different airplanes Maint can spend 20 minutes or more on FGC confidence checks each day. That's 20 minutes those mechanics can spend doing real maint on other aircraft. That is probably why Management belives the Huds/HGS pay for themselves in two years time.
I've only seen a HUD inop on two occasions. I've seen countless a/c downgraded to Cat 1 on a weekly basis.
11-08-2007 | 04:02 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,042
Likes: 0
From: 737 CA MIA
Also to be honest, on sim checks when they do the 500 RVR t/o with engine failure, then the sim instructor freezes the sim shortly after t/o to show how much off centerline you are and that your left wing may have just gone through a 747's tail that was taxiing on a parallel taxiway.
In real life there would be no aircraft there, or would there?
That is the beauty of the HUD the centerline tracking on T/O.
Is it worth a half million installed?
Some managemnts think so.
In real life there would be no aircraft there, or would there?
That is the beauty of the HUD the centerline tracking on T/O.
Is it worth a half million installed?
Some managemnts think so.
11-08-2007 | 06:17 AM
#40
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,209
Likes: 12
From: MD11 FO
Even the Navy NGs (C40) have HUDs.
No you can't go down to CAT IIIC levels because there's no rollout capability (manual rudder only) on the 737. I'm surprised that Alaska even lets you go down to 600RVR and no DH whatsoever? Sounds kind of dangerous without rollout.
Even if you've got a good autoland the HUD is still useful during low vis takeoffs.
There are no "daily autoland checks" - monthly I believe is the most stringent.
No you can't go down to CAT IIIC levels because there's no rollout capability (manual rudder only) on the 737. I'm surprised that Alaska even lets you go down to 600RVR and no DH whatsoever? Sounds kind of dangerous without rollout.
Even if you've got a good autoland the HUD is still useful during low vis takeoffs.
There are no "daily autoland checks" - monthly I believe is the most stringent.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
