[QUOTE=
Should be interesting when these East guys have to start over at another carrier at the bottom of the list.[/QUOTE]

You think anyone will hire these idiots after they destroy the company that saved their butts? Not to add showing an absolute lack of integrity by going back on arbitration they agreed to. No jobs for you.

 

Most likely they were captains who had been forced back to First Officer by the reduction in fleet size. The four stripes stay on the jacket in that case.


Typhoonpilot

 

Chuck,

Former Captains over there can continue to wear the jacket just not the hat. It's the same at NWA.

 

I am sorry, but I am so tired of the whining and stupid antics of the USAir pilots... They were the ones that were dumb enough to to go to "BINDING ARBITRATION".....

The only thing they are accomplishing by booting ALPA is creating a big smoke screen. ... THey stepped on their peckers when the arbitrator decided, and now they are throwing a TANTRUM!

I am laughing my butt off watching all of the East idiots.....

 

While United takes a lot of shots from fellow pilots, I can tell you that United was loaded with ex Pan Am and Eastern pilots. I flew with a lot of them on the 727. They were all very grateful to the pilots at United for making sure that they were given preferential treatment on hiring.
I hope that no other major goes out of business during my career, but if they do, I sincerely hope that this policy remains in effect at United.

 

What do you call a Captain that's been downgraded to First Officer? First Officer.
Those two on the left of the photo are either too cheap to have the stripe removed or their egos are too fragile to accept the fact that they're now first officers. Either way, it doesn't reflect favorably on either of them.

I guess that during my five years of furlough, I should've walked around wearing my uniform. I was a first officer forced back to the street by the reduction in fleet size.

 

FO's with the captain jacket is a pretty common thing to see in the US East hubs, I guess I've just gotten used to it over the years...

 

I laugh at those that say AWA saved US Airways. In the eight quarters since the merger, AWA has not posed a sing profit, while the US Airways portion of the airline has generated almost 500 million in profits last year and will be in the neighborhood of 650 million this year.

AWA was headed for CH 11 without this merger by the words of the AWA CEO and have never had any long term strategy other than being the number 2 airline in a PHX and LAS, low yield markets dominated by Southwest. There long term viability has always been in question and there was no growth potential. All that was available to them was to run a cut rate outfit in the shadow of Southwest and drive narrow bodies around the desert. Not a single dollar was spent on this merger by AWA, as all the financing was provided by outside investors. They weren't buying into the low yield operation of AWA but the profit center they new existed in the East and the huge concessions, including pension termination of the pilots, and the profits that would generate going forward.

All during the period of distress by US Airways, ALPA economic advisors were there every step of the way, whispering in the ears of the MEC to ensure no stand was taken that might threaten the 11.3 million dollars in dues ALPA collects from the US Airways pilots. This culminated in the voluntary termination of the DB pension plan without membership ratification. The rationale behind this was "saving your jobs", "your years of service", and protecting the "career advancement" you have so deservedly earned and sacrificed for. All of which through flawed ALPA policy and inaction was destroyed by the Nicalou award. So all the benefit of these sacrifices, sacrifices that ALPA made the case for were transferred to pilots from another airline via the Nicalou award.

None of the tenets of the policy were followed in the arbitration, and ALPA's response, "well they are guidelines for the direct negotiations(which only lasts 40 days) ", as their lawyers spin this. ALPA now says there is no "policy", only a process they provide. So much for the argument of ALPA merger policy that ALPA has touted for many years as a reason to be a member airline. There actually is no policy and the same protections of Negotiation and Arbitration are provided in Allegheny-Mohawk LPP's contained within most everyone's scope protections without the ALPA time line or bias and utilizing arbitrators prejudiced to longevity based integrations.

Perjured evidence and testimony was given to the arbitrator about the status of the Mid Atlantic pilots. When the airline was conceptualized, it was to be operated under the "potomac air certificate" and run as subsidiary and staffed by furloughed pilots. The FAA quickly shut this down and US Airways was forced to add these aircraft on their mainline certificate, a fact that was not divulged to the returning pilots and knowledge that ALPA possessed. None of the furlough recall provisions of the CBA were followed and they did not receive pay and benefits consistent with their longevity. They were being paid at first year. When a grievance was pursued it was not supported by ALPA because they were complicit in the matter and thus a 250 million dollar DFR lawsuit is now pending against ALPA. Obviously so as not to weaken their status in the DFR suit, ALPA would not provide a certified list that properly indicated the status of these pilots.

People rant about what the AWA pilots may or may not due but you can argue the flip side. The 3000 US Airways pilots could do the same under the ALPA cram down and 3000 strike breakers would be bad for US Airways or any ALPA carrier, and they would be qualified veterans to the tune of 20+ years to boot. I personally couldn't blame someone for not sit idly by who lost their pension and made huge sacrifices, while someone else now seeks to enjoy the benefit. It's pilot greed and theft in its purest form. Any attempt to devalue the concept of tenure is always an attempt by someone to justify jumping the line. The US Airways pilots should hang their head high because this profession led by ALPA is a gang of thugs and thieves, and someone should take any slight to the words of a thief because who the F$ck are they?

 

Your post indicates a serious deficit of understanding in this process. It also indicates why the East guys have to decertify. You can comb these post for and find all kinds of rationale for the East guys to roll over. "They agreed to binding arbitration", as if they had a choice; "they were in financial Hardship", as if A West wasn't;"the award will still stand", as if taking it up the wazoo without a fight is the way a man or union should operate. I haven't heard anything about the fact that the Nicolai award is a windfall and therefore against ALPA merger policy. The only person who has come close to acknowledging that fact is Doug Parker. ALPA national is self-serving. I am card carrying member and wear my alpha pin on every flight for the past ten years, but I've seen them operate. They sold the CAL pilots down the river to make sure their strike was over before the UAL strike of '85. They sold the TWA guys to AMR to get the 2000 payrates associated with expected consolidation. Braniff, Pan Am etc, ect. Once these guys leave the line and go to Herndon, they could not care less about line pilots. And unfortunately, ALPA pilots couldn't care less about ALPA pilots of a different airline. The aforementioned is why I'm all for decertification if we continue to sell each other out in current fashion. I like what they've got at AMR. The APA pilot group is, by definition, for the advancement of the APA pilot group. NO SURPRISES. I know that when it come down to it, ALPA is for ALPA, not the CAL pilot group to which I belong now.

Godspeed East. Keep fighting the way a "union" should. Your effort to rightfully trash the award may or may not happen, but like Red said about Andy Dufresne, "they never put anything down his throat.

 

Can someone explain to me the parts of this that I do not understand:

(1) If the complaint is against a national union which lacks power and effectiveness in coordinating individual MECs, how is a separate in house union going to fix that? It seems backwards - the way to fix a weakness in a national association is to ceede from that association.?.

(2) How is a USAPA going to be effective when the West pilots will not support it?

(3) Is the goal to keep the airline separate?

(4) There are lists of ALPA's wrong doing, but what about the Piedmont, PSA, CC Air and Allegheny pilots' history at the hands ALPA as directed by the US Air "East" MEC? Also, would leaving ALPA result in a loss of control over the ALPA represented feeder pilots?

(5) If US Air merges, or management decides to "unlock shareholder value" would a week national union be better than a bankrupt, relatively inexperienced, start up representative?

(6) How do the pilots deal with the potential whipsaw of the East and West? Or the next merger / deal?

I understand the East pilots being very angry. But, does this action get them closer to their goals? Or, is it just a vindictive effort to let ALPA know just how angry they are?

The US Air "East" pilots have certainly had a rough ride. They have my best wishes - just hope they make the right decisions and imprvoe their situation.