Go Back   Airline Pilot Central Forums - Find your next job as a Pilot > >
Major Legacy, National, and LCC
 

Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. Join our community today and start interacting with existing members. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-26-2008, 01:02 PM   #1  
Line Holder
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 79
Default Say it ain't so NWA!!!

Did you folks really give up your first class crew rest seat on 757 international trips? I hope that you didn't....having learned from the mistake we made here at CAL doing just that. It is miserable back in coach during a long, oceanic flight! If you aren't fighting with pax to get/stay the hell out of your seats, you can't get any rest from every single person in coach wanting you to explain everything from how planes fly to do you think Elvis is really dead!
flyboy1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2008, 04:31 PM   #2  
Gets Weekends Off
 
JetFlyer06's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Delta
Posts: 342
Default

Looks like its true under certain conditions:
maybe someone can explain those fare codes

E. Seating for Deadheading Pilots

E.1. Pilots deadheading at Company request on Company aircraft shall be provided with positive space on a Y1/F2 pass basis on international flights scheduled for over 6 hours (including pilots on “one-stop through flights”, even if one segment thereof is between domestic stations or is Domestic Flying), and a Y1/F6 pass basis on all domestic flights and all other international flights.

E.2. Such pilots will be accommodated in the first class section on a space-available basis, and then in the executive class, or similar class, section on a space-available basis, in accordance with their F6 (or, F2, if applicable) pass classification. Remaining pilots will be accommodated in the tourist section.

E.3. Such pilots will be entitled to non-smoking seats in tourist class. The entitlement of such pilots to non-smoking seats in the first class or executive class (or similar class) section is subject to space availability.

E.4. The Company shall have the right to designate seat selection for deadheading pilots when they are to be accommodated in the first class or executive class (or similar class) sections, provided that if a non-smoking seat(s) is available the pilot is entitled to such a seat.

E.5. No pilot deadheading under this Section 8 will be required to deadhead in the cockpit of any aircraft, except as provided in Section 8 C.2.b. and Section 8 C.3.b. 􀀴.
JetFlyer06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2008, 04:33 PM   #3  
Gets Weekends Off
 
saab2000's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,609
Default

Nothing to prevent it from being a middle seat between two fat, smelly folks. Non-smoking doesn't exist. They're all non-smoking.

DH flights for long haul and rest area should be just that "Rest" area. I.E. First Class.

Unless something was received this should not have been conceded.

The chipping away continues.
saab2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2008, 04:41 PM   #4  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,636
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFlyer06 View Post
Looks like its true under certain conditions:
maybe someone can explain those fare codes

E. Seating for Deadheading Pilots

E.1. Pilots deadheading at Company request on Company aircraft shall be provided with positive space on a Y1/F2 pass basis on international flights scheduled for over 6 hours (including pilots on “one-stop through flights”, even if one segment thereof is between domestic stations or is Domestic Flying), and a Y1/F6 pass basis on all domestic flights and all other international flights.

E.2. Such pilots will be accommodated in the first class section on a space-available basis, and then in the executive class, or similar class, section on a space-available basis, in accordance with their F6 (or, F2, if applicable) pass classification. Remaining pilots will be accommodated in the tourist section.

E.3. Such pilots will be entitled to non-smoking seats in tourist class. The entitlement of such pilots to non-smoking seats in the first class or executive class (or similar class) section is subject to space availability.

E.4. The Company shall have the right to designate seat selection for deadheading pilots when they are to be accommodated in the first class or executive class (or similar class) sections, provided that if a non-smoking seat(s) is available the pilot is entitled to such a seat.

E.5. No pilot deadheading under this Section 8 will be required to deadhead in the cockpit of any aircraft, except as provided in Section 8 C.2.b. and Section 8 C.3.b. 􀀴.
This is referencing actual pilot deadhead procedures.

I believe the original poster is asking about the IRO "crew rest seat", which differs from the airline's regular deadheading policy. When an IRO is on crew rest, it most definitely not "deadheading."

73
aa73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2008, 11:57 PM   #5  
Line Holder
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 79
Default NWA IRO rest seat

I was asking about the iro crew rest seat.
flyboy1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2008, 04:48 AM   #6  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Captain
Posts: 129
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aa73 View Post
This is referencing actual pilot deadhead procedures.

I believe the original poster is asking about the IRO "crew rest seat", which differs from the airline's regular deadheading policy. When an IRO is on crew rest, it most definitely not "deadheading."

73
This part of the contract refers to deadheading not crew augmentation. I believe those are two diferent things. If you are "working" the trip as a crewmember, you will get First Class. If you are deadheading to start a trip, then the above applies.
flyguy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2008, 07:40 AM   #7  
Gets Weekends Off
 
JetFlyer06's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Delta
Posts: 342
Default

Here it is...sorry wrong section before looks like we still get the first class seat with some exceptions...

C.4.b. When part of an augmented flight crew consisting of three pilots:

C.4.b.(1) A pilot shall neither be scheduled to remain on duty for more than 15 hours, nor required to remain on duty in excess of 16 hours, and

C.4.b.(2) A pilot shall not be scheduled to perform international flying on more than three flights in a duty period, and

C.4.b.(3) A pilot who has duty aloft of 20 hours or more during any 48 consecutive hours, or 24 hours or more during any 72 consecutive hours, shall be given at least 18 hours free from all duty at the completion of the duty period in which he exceeded the applicable restriction.

C.4.b.(4) The following minimum rest rules shall apply to pilots on trips where no flight had an augmented crew of more than three pilots:

C.4.b.(4)(a) Regular pilot. Upon return to his base from a trip where no flight had an augmented crew of more than three pilots, a regular pilot shall be given a rest period of at least 15:45.

C.4.b.(4)(b) Reserve pilot.

C.4.b.(4)(b)1' General rule. Upon return to his base from a trip where no flight had an augmented crew of more than three pilots, a reserve pilot shall be given a rest period that is at least twice the total number of his hours of duty aloft since his last rest period at his base, subject to a maximum of 36:00 and subject to the election to reduce rest set forth in Section 12 C.4.b.(4)(b)2'
.
C.4.b.(4)(b)2' Election to reduce rest. At the reserve pilot’s option, such rest may be reduced anytime after the assignment or award is made to the trip which gives rise to such a rest period, to the minimum rest of 15:45. However, to ensure his position on the reserve assignment list, a reserve pilot must make this election to reduce his rest by notifying Crew Scheduling no later than 23:59 local base time on the day prior to the last day of the trip hour period giving rise to the rest period.

C.4.b.(4)(b)3' Change of election to reduce rest. A reserve pilot may change an earlier election to reduce his rest by notifying Crew Scheduling no later than 23:59 local base time (i.e. prior to the start of the Trip Filling Period) on the day prior to the last day of the trip hour period giving rise to the rest period. However, no such change will be available to a reserve pilot to whom a trip assignment has already been made if such change would conflict with the trip assignment.
C.4.c. A pilot shall not be required to remain on duty in excess of 20 hours when part of an augmented flight crew consisting of four or more pilots.

12-18

Section 12 – Hours of Service July 31, 2006
C.4.d. When a pilot’s on-duty period is broken at an unscheduled en route stop, the minimum rest period shall be 9:30 release to report.

C.4.e. The minimum actual rest period to break an on-duty period, except as provided in Section 12 C.4.d. 􀀴, shall be 13:30 release to report.

C.4.f. A pilot moving from an augmented flight crew to a non-augmented flight crew, or vice versa, shall be given an intervening rest period of at least 15:45 release to report.

C.4.g. A pilot moving from one size of augmented flight crew to another size of augmented flight crew shall be given an intervening rest period of at least that which would have been required had the pilot’s next scheduled duty period remained on the same size of augmented flight crew.

C.4.h. Upon his return to his base from a trip, a pilot shall be given a rest period that is at least twice the total number of his hours of duty aloft since his last rest period at his base, except as provided in Section 12 C.4.b.(4).

C.4.i. The Company shall provide comfortable and quiet sleeping quarters, including a separate bunk or bed, for the use of each crewmember while not on flight deck duty. A reclining seat, whether in the cockpit or cabin, will not satisfy the requirements of this provision.

EXCEPTION 1: With respect to an augmented flight crew, the Company shall not be required to provide such sleeping quarters to a pilot who is deadheading MSP-ORD, ORD-MSP, NYC-DTW, DTW-NYC, MSP-DTW, or DTW-MSP, in order to position for a transpacific flight or in order to return to his base after a transpacific flight.

EXCEPTION 2: With respect to an augmented three pilot flight crew on an international flight with a scheduled block time of nine hours or less, on a narrowbody aircraft which is not equipped with a crew bunk(s) the Company may utilize a dedicated first class (or equivalent) seat for a pilot in place of sleeping quarters. Such dedicated seat shall be removed from passenger sales. Agents shall be notified of the prohibition against selling such dedicated seat and that no pilot of such augmented flight shall be required or requested to relinquish such seat. With respect to an augmented three pilot flight crew on a narrowbody aircraft flight between the Continental United States and Mexico, the Caribbean area, the Bahamas or Bermuda, the following shall also apply:

(i) The on-duty period will not be scheduled to commence prior to 0500 (local time) or to terminate later than 2359 (local time);

(ii) All other applicable on-duty limitations and rest provisions of Section 12 of the Agreement will apply. 12-19

Section 12 – Hours of Service July 31, 2006
􀀴
EXCEPTION 3: On augmented flights, Operating Experience (OE) and line checks may be conducted, provided that the OE instructor and the OE pilot and line check airman, if they cannot be accommodated in the existing crew bunks, shall have a dedicated first class seat(s) for the flight, or, if there is no first class section on the aircraft, then a world business class seat(s), or its equivalent. Such seat(s) shall be removed from passenger sales. Agents shall be notified, via bulletin, training and a provision in the appropriate agent manual, of the prohibition against selling such dedicated seat(s) and that no pilot of such augmented flight shall be required or requested to relinquish such seat(s).
JetFlyer06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2008, 07:42 AM   #8  
Gets Weekends Off
 
NoWake200's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: At the Blue Line
Posts: 243
Default

I wonder if NWA deadheads out the IRO and works them back? (When the first crossing is less than 8 hours)

I think my friend at CAL said that was common practice.

ALL IROs NEED TO HAVE A FIRST CLASS SEAT!!!! just my 2c.
NoWake200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2008, 10:25 AM   #9  
Gets Weekends Off
 
newKnow's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 7ER-A
Posts: 6,693
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoWake200 View Post
I wonder if NWA deadheads out the IRO and works them back? (When the first crossing is less than 8 hours)

Nope. It's straight to the hotel for everyone.
newKnow is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
 

 
Reply
 



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Northwest Strike Ballots Authorized RockBottom Major 19 02-15-2006 06:12 PM
NWA Council 20 on 1113c Negotiations LDmax Major 0 01-28-2006 12:57 PM
NWA MEC Hotline RockBottom Major 0 01-07-2006 03:24 PM
NWA ALPA Ziplines RockBottom Major 0 09-14-2005 09:52 PM
NWA MEC letter RockBottom Major 1 08-12-2005 03:22 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:06 AM.


vBulletin® v3.9.3.5, Copyright ©2000-2019, MH Sub I, LLC dba vBulletin
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Website Copyright ©2000 - 2017 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1