iahflyr

Delta and Northwest pilots should be so thankful of Lee Moak.


He set a major precedent in this industry. If you want to merge, consult the pilots FIRST. This will undoubtably be helpful for all future pilot groups when they are faced with a merger. With oil at $117/barrel, airline mergers are absolutely necessary to keep airlines aloft. Lots of airlines will need to merge in the next year in order to stay alive. So having this precedent set is a major step forward.

Next, he secured the first legacy carrier contract improvement since 9/11. 19% over 4 years. Not great, but better than nothing. Not to mention, the current Delta rates for Northwest aircraft that were negotiated are about 10% higher than the current Northwest rates (DC9/A320/747). And this is just a temporary contract as I understand it. Once Delta and Northwest formally merge, I believe they will both negotiate a joint contract. Since Delta has already set the precedent of these higher rates (20-30% higher than current rates), the joint contract rates can only be higher.

Mergers can have a lot of benefits for pilots. Compensation improvements and large equity stakes in a $17 billion dollar airline are huge sums of money. The extra job security provided by a much larger and much more competitive company cannot be put into words. The addition of new aircraft, new bases, new routes, and new layovers can help improve each pilots QOL.

Lee Moak did a lot of good for Delta and Northwest pilots. And he did a lot of good for all pilots with the precedents he set. Now APA has a lot better chance of getting their pre-9/11 wages (30.5% increase) now that Delta pilots got a 20% increase, and Northwest pilots got a 30% increase, not to mention the equity stake. I am very happy with Lee Moak. Keep up the great work.

Eric Stratton

in that great contract of 2001 how much scope did you give up to get what you got? do you think you sold out future delta pilots by giving that up? how about the current junior pilots when they were furloughed and your regionals were growing with that loosened scope. way to raise the bar and lower it all at the same time.

by the way did you get that scope back when you gave concessions?

how much of deltas domestic flying is done by delta vs the regionals?

Eric Stratton

northwest doesn't have a 30% increase, furlough protection or equity and the precedent that he set is that if you want a merger to go through, all you have to deal with is the pilot group that holds anything management needs. in this case, delta's scope.

this could all change in the next 6-8 months but by what delta achieved for only themselves they have made it obvious their is no detriment to them for not negociating.

Carl Spackler

Before some of the Delta folks begin denegrating other pilot groups at UAL or CAL with regard to their current pay rates etc. while praising the fact that Delta got the first post 9-11 pay increase of any major carrier, ask yourself how DALPA did it. Ask the pilots at UAL or CAL if they would have gone so far as to secure the pay increase and no furlough clause for just themselves after a merger announcement. No question that DALPA secured the pay increase and no furlough clause, the concern is how it was obtained. While the rationalizations run the gamit, this one from flyguy1012 is interesting:

Unfortunately, desperate times call for desperate measures and I, for one, am glad that we have someone that is willing to step up and take the heat for taking a new approach. His primary role is to make sure that the pilot's who have elected him get the best representation their is.

It's interesting because it at least admits that the action was a desperate measure. Unfortunately for NWA pilots, it looks like a darn successful one.

Carl

newKnow

Nevermind.....

Eric Stratton

can someone actually post what ALPA's definition of unity is. what is expected of ALPA members or is there even such a thing?

for as long as I've been an ALPA member I have never seen true unity. it's all lip service.

Carl Spackler

This is something that CAL/UAL will have to consider very carefully. Knowing what we know now, whichever carrier is decided to be the acquiring carrier will hold great leverage. Since we know that increasing oil prices are probably going to require some capacity reduction, a lot will depend upon whether CAL or UAL secures a no furlough clause for just their group. And that will most likely depend on who is the union of the acquiring carrier as that union will have the most leverage. Once the no furlough clause is in place, any reductions will have to be borne by the pilot group without the clause until the end of a multi-year arbitration process. The pay increase for one side is one thing, but the no furlough clause is the 800 pound gorilla.

Just one guy's advice, but UAL and CAL would be wise to co-author a memorandum of understanding that no such actions will take place outside of negotiations for a combined agreement between CALPA, UALPA, and the acquiring carrier's management. This would greatly ease tensions, allow for real negotiations and provide the first step toward turning a "shotgun wedding" into a real family.

Carl

Pilot41

ALPA has never been about unity, only about money.

Adola

ALPA is to Unity as Herding is to Cats...

Eric Stratton

after the merger date is there anything in either contract that prevents either pilot group from flying the others equipment? transfering it from one side to the other?

the delta guys said that they had no power to negociate for the nwa side but someone posted new pay rates for nwa's equipment. (negociated by delta)