swaayze

Well that sounds exactly like my plan from the late 80's. Now I'm a junior reserve at a regional after 14 yrs in the airline industry. Got the same degree, but try getting a job like that w/ no experience and many years removed from school. Of course my timing has flat out stunk and I've bypassed some "better" opportunities in the name of family, but it just ain't that easy. That said, you also just described many pilots' careers who were in the queue at a different point in history, so it just might work out for you.

Bottom line is you won't know 'til you try so go for it - but only if this is really what you want to do.

727C47

I flew 10 years in DC-3s(night freight on call), 2 more in CV340s(great ship),now I'm on the 727,flying for a spunky ,little non-sched. Moral of the story,just do it! There are no guarantees about anything, if you want to be a pilot,be a pilot! If you want iron clad security, and a guaranteed pension,go get a civil service job, (or fly for UPS!). This career has taken me from JFK to Bang-kok, and every little windswept 3AM strip in between,but the beauty I have seen,and the satisfaction I have experienced in these cockpits is without price. I hope your master plan works out for you,I really do, just follow your own inner compass, and go for it.Good luck!God bless!

rickair7777

That's a good funny

sgrd0q

So you get paid the same whether you are a first year FO or a tenth year FO flying the same equipment?

I agree with you - being paid the same for doing the same job irrespective of the number of years of service makes sense. After all you are equally responsible for performing your duties the first year or the second, or third, etc. You are expected to be a professional and do your job in the same manner at all times. So the compensation should remain the same.

I'd go a step further and say get rid of this whole seniority thing. Publish minimums and hire at all levels. Eliminate upgrades and promotions.

Here's how it works. Hire everyone off the street. For instance the minimums for a 737 FO may be 1,000 PIC and 3,000 total; and for a 747 CA 12,000 total. I picked numbers out of a hat – I may be off.

The point is - you get hired for a position and you keep that position for life. There are no upgrades or promotions. The pay may be adjusted each year for inflation (or even market conditions), but all pilots flying the same equipment at the same seat make exactly the same money. (Of course if the company eliminates a certain type of airplane then they must move you to an equivalent or higher paying seat on another type. This will be the only exception of the "no-promotions" rule.)

You want to fly bigger equipment for more money or upgrade for more money? You can apply for that position like everyone else as long as you meet the minimums. Well, maybe you automatically pass the HR interview as an existing employee, but that's it. After that the best candidate for the job gets the job based on an extensive evaluation. No matter if you are an existing employee or off the street.

The question is - how do you award lines if there is no seniority? Simple, let everyone bid pretty much like they bid today by listing all the lines in order of preference. Then use a computer program to allocate lines so that the final solution is optimal. E.g. if there are 50 pilots and 50 lines, if a pilot gets their first choice this has a score of 1; second choice, a score of 2, etc. Then you need to find a solution where after allocating everyone the sum of everyone's score is minimal. In this case 50 will be the lowest sum (if everyone got their first choice) which is unlikely, and 2,500 will be the highest sum if everyone got their last choice. The computer program can find a solution with the lowest sum – it is fairly simple to write an algorithm to accomplish this.

You can refine this even more. Rate all lines by how often people like to pick them. Then add extra pay above and beyond the base pay to entice people to bid on lines that people don't bid on often. E.g. a nice line with all weekends off will be at base pay. Another line with 2 Saturdays and 2 Sundays flying will be base pay + 500 dollars. If people don't bid enough, increase next bid period to base pay + 600, etc. Eventually you'll get people to bid for this line just as much as the line with no weekends if you raise the money enough. So by making these adjustments all lines will be equally desirable and most people will get one of their top few choices. So the young guy without a family who wants to maximize his income will bid on the line with 2 Saturdays and 2 Sundays flying, while another guy who isn't chasing the money so much and prefers weekends at home can bid on the lower paying "no-weekends-away" lines.

This will be fair I think.

The rate will be set to the average industry rate for the respective seat and equipment. The good news is that you won't work for peanuts only to lose your medial or see your company fold and never see the promised big bucks. The bad news is that you'll never get to make the big bucks. Rather you'll start in the middle and stay there.

Also, people won't be married to their airline. If you have the experience and if you have what it takes to fly the left seat of a 747 you get hired right there – no going back to the bottom of a regional.

Rewarding people for staying with the company the longest by paying them more and giving them higher seniority really makes no sense to me. Not to mention that staying at the same company the longest is mostly a function of luck.

OK, sorry for the long post – I am done. You can lynch me now

rickair7777

I'll take it! The current system requires you to work your @ss for small bucks in hopes of making big bucks later...even if you do make the big bucks someday, the net result is a lifetime average in the middle. Of course today's management knows how to ensure that they don't EVER have to pay out the big bucks...so I'll take middle right now, instead of a "promise" for more later...but my idea of "middle" might not be the same as say, Jet Blue's...the payscale would be based on the economics of the equipment, and most of the equipment can make a LOT of money

Obviously it would have to phased in to protect the senior guys.

UGBSM

Ok, you asked for advice. Quit making plans like that. If you wanna get on this roller coaster, then you are just along for the ride. If you love it... great. Whether you still do 25 years from now doesn't matter, you're stuck with it, unless you want to start all over again.

Don't be discouraged. The world needs ditch-diggers and the world needs flying bus drivers and the money is about the same. Do what you want.

You wanna make money? Be a doctor, lawyer, CEO, or business owner. Airline pilot is not in that class anymore. Just so you know.

Oh, BTW. You are 22 now and your goal is to make 100K some 15 years from now? In 2021? Hmmmm... you really do love flying more than money.

SkyHigh

ryane946 ,

Keep in mind that aviation loves people with well laid plans so it can mess with them. You have two eggs (pilot and aerospace engineer) in one basket (aviation). The odds of you enjoying a long and unbroken career are very slim and remember that your back up plan is in the same industry. My father is an Aerospace Engineer too and has been laid off more than me. Your expectations might work out but my guess is that the odds are one in ten. If you don't come up with a better back up plan then we might be seeing you at the Home-Depot.

Good Luck,

SkyHigh

Frank Rizzo

That is very short sighted thinking.

After 3 yrs at AirTran you'll be making 120K. Suck it up.

KiloAlpha

According to APC, a 3 yr CA at AirTran probably earns around $95K...

Frank Rizzo

If you rely on what APC says, you're missing a lot.

You're looking at raw numbers, there is a lot more to our contract than the payscales. Every month there is a significant amount of soft pay.

Trip rigs, duty rigs, minimum duty period guarantees, re -assignments and the like add a lot to your paycheck. Reserve life sucks, but these guys have been known to make 120+ credit hrs a month.

I've been here 8 yrs ($133/hr) and made just under $155K last year, and I'm as lazy as they come, not including 25K in stock options that I cashed in.