Continental Cosolidation Website
04-26-2008 | 03:01 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,213
Likes: 14
From: guppy CA
I agree you should keep what have but, I certainly don't feel that your gain should be my loss. I was hired in 1987, using relative seniority basically mixes me in with UAL 1993 hires. Many of those 1993 hires are younger than me and will be above me as long as I am here diminishing my career expectations.
An arbitrator will not just choose one method to merge the two carriers and you best get used to that fact.
An arbitrator will not just choose one method to merge the two carriers and you best get used to that fact.
I completely understand your concerns; I was hired in 2000 at the age of 39. You might be surprised to find out how old many of UAL's were when they were hired; we had a lot of ex-Easterners hired in the 90s.
An arbiter will have a very difficult job. He'll make the best possible decision without any personal biases.
If it does go down, good luck to all.
04-26-2008 | 03:03 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,213
Likes: 14
From: guppy CA
They've said that it's a possibility. Reading between the lines, it's going to happen unless something changes in the industry and soon.
04-26-2008 | 03:25 PM
#53
Need More Callouts
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,143
Likes: 0
From: Unbridled Enthusiasm
757Driver, the combined carrier will have more than 5x the number of 747/777s that CAL currently has; factoring in the 8 CAL orders, it would still have 4x. That would give you a lot more opportunities to get in the left seat of a larger aircraft. I don't know if that helps ease your concerns.
I completely understand your concerns; I was hired in 2000 at the age of 39. You might be surprised to find out how old many of UAL's were when they were hired; we had a lot of ex-Easterners hired in the 90s.
An arbiter will have a very difficult job. He'll make the best possible decision without any personal biases.
If it does go down, good luck to all.
I completely understand your concerns; I was hired in 2000 at the age of 39. You might be surprised to find out how old many of UAL's were when they were hired; we had a lot of ex-Easterners hired in the 90s.
An arbiter will have a very difficult job. He'll make the best possible decision without any personal biases.
If it does go down, good luck to all.
I understand but I was hired in my 20's so I guess its all relative. The big point I'm trying to hammer home is there is no one sure method to do this so expect some creative work by an arbitrator.
04-26-2008 | 07:02 PM
#54
Smells like teen spirit
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 216
Likes: 0
From: Mil and Civ
jdt30, just so unrealistic expectations don't take hold, relative seniority also involves several other factors, as was mentioned by CatIIIc.
One of those relative seniority tweaks is going to look at the size of equipment on each company's property. To illustrate, let's break it down by United's payscales (I'd do it by CAL's but I'm not smart enough to figure out the ratios between LN and SN). You've got three groups - 747/777, 757/767, and A319/320/737. There will be an integration based on those three groupings, so a bottom 777 guy at CAL would end up lower %age in the combined list than the bottom 777 guy. Look at how USAir/AmWest's merger worked out - the top 500 spots went to the easties due to having larger equipment on property.
That's only one factor; I'm sure that an arbitrator will take others into account.
With CAL's new website, they are signalling that they are leaving SkyTeam, based on the way I read the following quote from question 3 in their FAQ: "We are committed to being an important player in one of the three global alliances, so that we can continue to offer a broad, global network to our customers. We will communicate any changes that result from that review."
I read that as CAL saying that they'll either end up in Star Alliance or One World. I can't see Tilton allowing CAL into Star without a merger, and if a merger takes place, LCC will be in the same shoes as CAL is currently in. That is, LCC will end up getting frozen out of a lot of Star codeshare bookings.
I don't know how a hookup with AMR will work for CAL; that could be interesting. I imagine that AMR will either merge with CAL or LCC. If AMR doesn't merge, I could see them extracting quite a bit of blood from whomever they allow to join One World.
If CAL ends up merging with either AMR or CAL, there's going to have to be some additional investment capital thrown into the merged company. I'm guessing that it'd be ~$2B; someone threw $1.5B into NWA/DAL. I was surprised to see that NWA/DAL; I didn't think that there was much investment money out there to be had.
No matter what happens in all of this, I hope that CAL's pilots don't have any ill will toward UAL pilots. I haven't heard any derogatory remarks about CAL pilots from UAL. In the UAL/U merger back in 2000, things got ugly fast. There are still a lot of UAL pilots who have no love lost for the easties. I'd hate to see history repeat itself on either side.
One of those relative seniority tweaks is going to look at the size of equipment on each company's property. To illustrate, let's break it down by United's payscales (I'd do it by CAL's but I'm not smart enough to figure out the ratios between LN and SN). You've got three groups - 747/777, 757/767, and A319/320/737. There will be an integration based on those three groupings, so a bottom 777 guy at CAL would end up lower %age in the combined list than the bottom 777 guy. Look at how USAir/AmWest's merger worked out - the top 500 spots went to the easties due to having larger equipment on property.
That's only one factor; I'm sure that an arbitrator will take others into account.
With CAL's new website, they are signalling that they are leaving SkyTeam, based on the way I read the following quote from question 3 in their FAQ: "We are committed to being an important player in one of the three global alliances, so that we can continue to offer a broad, global network to our customers. We will communicate any changes that result from that review."
I read that as CAL saying that they'll either end up in Star Alliance or One World. I can't see Tilton allowing CAL into Star without a merger, and if a merger takes place, LCC will be in the same shoes as CAL is currently in. That is, LCC will end up getting frozen out of a lot of Star codeshare bookings.
I don't know how a hookup with AMR will work for CAL; that could be interesting. I imagine that AMR will either merge with CAL or LCC. If AMR doesn't merge, I could see them extracting quite a bit of blood from whomever they allow to join One World.
If CAL ends up merging with either AMR or CAL, there's going to have to be some additional investment capital thrown into the merged company. I'm guessing that it'd be ~$2B; someone threw $1.5B into NWA/DAL. I was surprised to see that NWA/DAL; I didn't think that there was much investment money out there to be had.
No matter what happens in all of this, I hope that CAL's pilots don't have any ill will toward UAL pilots. I haven't heard any derogatory remarks about CAL pilots from UAL. In the UAL/U merger back in 2000, things got ugly fast. There are still a lot of UAL pilots who have no love lost for the easties. I'd hate to see history repeat itself on either side.
Major points for CAL - confirmed aircraft orderwise (straight from APC):
* Ordered 8 777's and 19 737NG's in Feb of this year
* 6 more 777 deliveries - 2 in '09, 4 in '11, and 2 in '12
* 111 a/c deliveries between '08 to '12
* Averaging 2-3 737NG deliveries per month currently (which is indeed taking place)
* 33 737NG deliveries for '08
* 24 737NG for '09 along with 2-3 787's for '09 (based on no more delays), and 10 more 737NG along with 6 787 for '09-'12
Major points for UAL - again straight from APC:
* 0 confirmed future a/c deliveries
* Intends to park add'l 10-15 aircraft (30 total) per Q1 conf call
* Announced in March reduction of 15-20 a/c by years end
Again, points to ponder if we're talking arbitration.
04-28-2008 | 03:55 AM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,213
Likes: 14
From: guppy CA
04-28-2008 | 04:02 AM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 593
Likes: 0
From: B767A[ret.]
News Releases
Print Version
Continental Airlines Chooses Not to Merge
HOUSTON, April 27 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Continental Airlines (NYSE: CAL) released the following message to its more than 45,000 employees from Larry Kellner, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, and Jeff Smisek, President.
Dear Co-worker,
We want you to know that our Board of Directors met today and has
unanimously supported management's recommendation that, in the current
industry environment, the best course for Continental is to not merge
with another airline at this time.
Our recommendation, and the Board's careful and considered decision,
followed a comprehensive review of our strategic alternatives, assisted
by our senior officers and advised by Continental's outside financial and
legal advisors. The Board very carefully considered all the risks and
benefits of a merger with another airline, and determined that the risks
of a merger at this time outweigh the potential rewards, as compared to
Continental's prospects on a standalone basis.
We have significant cultural, operational and financial strengths
compared to the rest of the industry, and we want to protect and enhance
those strengths -- which we believe would be placed at risk in a merger
with another carrier in today's environment. We will, however, continue
to review potential alliances and our membership in SkyTeam. We are
considering alternatives to SkyTeam as we carefully evaluate which major
global alliance will be best for Continental over the long term.
While some would prefer to see Continental pursue a merger, we strongly
believe we have made the right decision -- one that is in the best
interests of our stockholders, co-workers, customers and the communities
we serve.
Every U.S. carrier, including Continental, is under enormous pressure
from record high fuel prices, a slowing U.S. economy and a weak dollar.
In today's harsh environment, we must continue to adjust our business
model to ensure we successfully navigate through these difficult times,
so that in the future we can once again grow and prosper. As we take
actions, we will communicate them to you as soon as possible. In the
meantime, we must all continue to concentrate on what we do so well:
delivering clean, safe and reliable air transportation every day.
Even in these tough times, we have great strengths. We have an enviable
position in the New York market, a powerful hub in Houston, and hubs in
Cleveland and Guam. We have a solid trans-Atlantic route network, which
has recently been enhanced by our access to London Heathrow. We also
have a great Latin American network and a growing portfolio of routes to
India and Asia. We fly the youngest, most fuel-efficient fleet and have
the best new aircraft order book among the major network carriers.
Most importantly, we have our Working Together culture, and we will
ensure it remains intact. We've achieved our industry-leading customer
service reputation because of you -- our co-workers. We will all work
together to get through these tough times.
We are both proud to be on your team.
Larry Jeff
~
Corporate Background
Continental Airlines is the world's fifth largest airline. Continental, together with Continental Express and Continental Connection, has more than 3,100 daily departures throughout the Americas, Europe and Asia, serving 145 domestic and 138 international destinations. More than 550 additional points are served via SkyTeam alliance airlines. With more than 45,000 employees, Continental has hubs serving New York, Houston, Cleveland and Guam, and together with Continental Express, carries approximately 69 million passengers per year. Continental consistently earns awards and critical acclaim for both its operation and its corporate culture.
For the fifth consecutive year, FORTUNE magazine named Continental the No. 1 World's Most Admired Airline on its 2008 list of World's Most Admired Companies. Additionally, Continental again won major awards at the OAG Airline of the Year Awards including "Best Airline Based in North America" for the fourth year in a row, and "Best Executive/Business Class" for the fifth consecutive year. For more company information, visit continental.com.
SOURCE Continental Airlines
-0- 04/27/2008
/CONTACT: Corporate Communications of Continental Airlines,
+1-713-324-5080, [email protected]/
/Web site: http://www.continental.com /
(CAL)
CO: Continental Airlines
ST: Texas
IN: AIR TRA TRN
SU: TNM
ND-KB
-- LASU004A --
2491 04/27/2008 17:37 EDT http://www.prnewswire.com
Print Version
Continental Airlines Chooses Not to Merge
HOUSTON, April 27 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Continental Airlines (NYSE: CAL) released the following message to its more than 45,000 employees from Larry Kellner, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, and Jeff Smisek, President.
Dear Co-worker,
We want you to know that our Board of Directors met today and has
unanimously supported management's recommendation that, in the current
industry environment, the best course for Continental is to not merge
with another airline at this time.
Our recommendation, and the Board's careful and considered decision,
followed a comprehensive review of our strategic alternatives, assisted
by our senior officers and advised by Continental's outside financial and
legal advisors. The Board very carefully considered all the risks and
benefits of a merger with another airline, and determined that the risks
of a merger at this time outweigh the potential rewards, as compared to
Continental's prospects on a standalone basis.
We have significant cultural, operational and financial strengths
compared to the rest of the industry, and we want to protect and enhance
those strengths -- which we believe would be placed at risk in a merger
with another carrier in today's environment. We will, however, continue
to review potential alliances and our membership in SkyTeam. We are
considering alternatives to SkyTeam as we carefully evaluate which major
global alliance will be best for Continental over the long term.
While some would prefer to see Continental pursue a merger, we strongly
believe we have made the right decision -- one that is in the best
interests of our stockholders, co-workers, customers and the communities
we serve.
Every U.S. carrier, including Continental, is under enormous pressure
from record high fuel prices, a slowing U.S. economy and a weak dollar.
In today's harsh environment, we must continue to adjust our business
model to ensure we successfully navigate through these difficult times,
so that in the future we can once again grow and prosper. As we take
actions, we will communicate them to you as soon as possible. In the
meantime, we must all continue to concentrate on what we do so well:
delivering clean, safe and reliable air transportation every day.
Even in these tough times, we have great strengths. We have an enviable
position in the New York market, a powerful hub in Houston, and hubs in
Cleveland and Guam. We have a solid trans-Atlantic route network, which
has recently been enhanced by our access to London Heathrow. We also
have a great Latin American network and a growing portfolio of routes to
India and Asia. We fly the youngest, most fuel-efficient fleet and have
the best new aircraft order book among the major network carriers.
Most importantly, we have our Working Together culture, and we will
ensure it remains intact. We've achieved our industry-leading customer
service reputation because of you -- our co-workers. We will all work
together to get through these tough times.
We are both proud to be on your team.
Larry Jeff
~
Corporate Background
Continental Airlines is the world's fifth largest airline. Continental, together with Continental Express and Continental Connection, has more than 3,100 daily departures throughout the Americas, Europe and Asia, serving 145 domestic and 138 international destinations. More than 550 additional points are served via SkyTeam alliance airlines. With more than 45,000 employees, Continental has hubs serving New York, Houston, Cleveland and Guam, and together with Continental Express, carries approximately 69 million passengers per year. Continental consistently earns awards and critical acclaim for both its operation and its corporate culture.
For the fifth consecutive year, FORTUNE magazine named Continental the No. 1 World's Most Admired Airline on its 2008 list of World's Most Admired Companies. Additionally, Continental again won major awards at the OAG Airline of the Year Awards including "Best Airline Based in North America" for the fourth year in a row, and "Best Executive/Business Class" for the fifth consecutive year. For more company information, visit continental.com.
SOURCE Continental Airlines
-0- 04/27/2008
/CONTACT: Corporate Communications of Continental Airlines,
+1-713-324-5080, [email protected]/
/Web site: http://www.continental.com /
(CAL)
CO: Continental Airlines
ST: Texas
IN: AIR TRA TRN
SU: TNM
ND-KB
-- LASU004A --
2491 04/27/2008 17:37 EDT http://www.prnewswire.com
04-28-2008 | 04:10 AM
#58
Retired
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,527
Likes: 0
From: whale wrangler
04-28-2008 | 04:22 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,213
Likes: 14
From: guppy CA
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