Let's see you merge with another bigger airline, you can't agree on a seniority list, you both volunteer to go to binding arbitration to settle the dispute, the bigger pilot group doesn't like the outcome, votes your union out and decides to impose whatever seniority the larger group thinks is fair on the smaller group, while agreeing to work for less wages than the smaller group. Do you get it now why they are scabs

I just don't get it. Every time I see a thread or a youtube video on the subject, the more I can't believe the west pilots and their actions.

The lesson to be learned from this whole ordeal is that arbitrators know how to screw things up in a big way. When an issue comes up, for crying out loud, somebody come up with a viable solution. In my opinion, it seems that the USAPA folks are the only ones trying to do that.

I also can't believe that ALPA would look favorably on the outcome of the arbitration award. The shortsighted gains that the west pilots get from the award will screw the industry as a whole. If that integration list stands, it will be the blueprint for management to cut wages for our profession for years to come.

Imagine you are the scheming CEO of a large airline with a group of pilots at the top of their payscales in terms of years of service. To lower labor costs, you could
a. try to negotiate a lower payscale (painful, and not likely to succeed, and especially volatile when you collect your multimillion dollar bonus check),
b. offer substantial buyouts to get "overpriced" pilots out of the cockpits (too costly),
c. go bankrupt and start from scratch (but then those damn restricted stock options become worthless), or
d. furlough half of the pilot group, merge with a much younger carrier, and insert a large batch of cheaper pilots into the middle of the seniority lists (lower pilot costs = profits and bonuses for management... added bonus, half the pilots are happy to help).

I can see it now... Next year, American will furlough up to 5000 pilots, meanwhile Continental expands and hires 3000 furloughed pilots from ATA and other places all at 1st year F/O pay. Then American merges with Continental, staples their own 5000 10 year+ pilots to the bottom of the list leaving them on furlough, and gets 3000 experienced pilots flying for 1st year pay to be the FOs. Who gets screwed? The bottom half of American's pilots, all the ATA pilots who had to start back at square one, and the profession as a whole.

That is how I see what happened at AWA/USAir. If I am wrong, please explain it to me.

In the mean time, please west pilots, take a deep breath, sit down at the table with USAPA, figure out what is important, find some common ground, and come up with a compromise to end this nonsense.

My two yen (a currency I'm fairly certain isn't going anywhere)

The AWA pilots came to the table willing to work on a solution before the arbitration. The East wouldn't budge from DOH, which would have tacked the aquiring airlines pilots on the bottom. What part of reality don't you understand.

You are so far off base that I won't even waist my time with your delusions, to say that usapa is the only one looking for solutions speaks volumes of just how far out of the loop you are.

I'll admit that I am out of the loop. But as an impartial bystander you aren't exactly helping me see your side of things.

As far as USAPA not willing to budge on DOH, when I hear them talk about setting up fences, that sounds like they are accomodating you on the date of hire issue. That sounds like they are negotiating, and trying to come to an agreement that works for all USAir (east and west) pilots.

Responses like the ones that you two just gave does not make it sound like you are working toward a resolution. I am just hearing, "we won Nicolau, USAPA guys are losers, now it's Miller Time".

Send some reps to USAPA... let DOH stand and build the fences necessary to give your guys an equitable QOL. Tell those guys where to put the fence posts, (but not where the sun don't shine).

If there are other issues at hand, voice them. Tell us how the USAPA guys are screwing you over. Tell us how Nicolau is good for the profession, other than just being a cautionary tale.

Fred,
Binding arbitration is just that. You can't just agree to it and have a hissy-fit when you don't like the results. If you can't see that then you are so far out of the loop that no one can bring you back!

Let DOH stand? I see where you are coming from, no need to respond to such a bone headed statement.

Spanky,

I'm not too concerned about the binding arbitration part of this matter. I understand what it means. Personally, I'd like to keep the lawyers as far out of this as possible. For every lawyer that says it is final, there's another lawyer who says it isn't (usually based on who pays the retainer).

I'm concerned about the process that got us there. If the arbitrator gave a strict DOH ruling which made every USAir guy a capt and every AWA guy and FO, I'd be just as outraged.

I feel that the arbitrator's award was unduly influenced by management, and as such, set a dangerous precedent for future mergers and will be a detrement to all of our future professional QOL.

As such, I'd like to see the west guys take an active and constructive interest in the activities of USAPA. Come up with some agreement that they can all live with, and present the terms to management as part of a unified CBA. Most importantly, stop all the nonsense that was mentioned in the opening of this thread.

When I face a merger in the future (not if), I for one will make damn sure that I am not acting like most of the west guys in those "Can't stand the heat" videos. I would like to understand how the west guys feel that what they have is a fair award. If it was truly fair, and they gave up as much as they got, then why don't we make that process the standard for how we will deal with all future mergers?

Sorry to all those people who just spilled drinks on their keyboards reading that last line.

At least take the whole quote in context. DOH plus fences. It is not an ideal system either, but it does have its merits. Explain why it is boneheaded. What are the fair and equitable alternatives?

Dang you guys are touchy.

No it has zero merits when you have such disparate work groups, Hey I have an idea let's find an independant third party to decide ;)