As far as I know we have people not paying jack

Not an airline pilot and not trying to flame-bait, but I do have some questions about this whole US Air vs America West debacle. I know that they called it a "Merger" when US merged with America West in 2005, but US Air was bankrupt correct? So wasnt America West essentially saving US Air's bacon by merging with them? If so, why would USAPA want Date-of-Hire seniority considering that it would truly screw over the West pilots--the same pilots who flew for the airline that ended up saving them from totally losing their jobs? You wanna screw over the guys who helped save your job? I just dont understand it.

nobody saved anybody's jobs. The banks did that. The banks put these two losing airlines together in order to save their own investments in both

Actually, the banks put two losing airlines together so they could lose even larger amounts.

Stinson, AWA was making money, had been since 1994 except for 9/11. US Airways lost more money than the market cap of AWA over that period of time. Hey, a billion here, a billion there, pretty soon you are talking real money, but who's counting.

Arizona is a right to work state but the RLA (federal) supercedes state law. Darn those federalists.

Pretty easy to take potshots when you fly for UPS. UPS is a great company, been around longer than the airline industry. But the passenger game is a lot different than a logistics company that happens to fly some jets. We made money after the merger until oil shot up higher than Brittany Spear's skirt.

Not taking pot-shots at all. I am neutral in my replies, but lean more toward the West guys and AWAPPA. I can see both sides somewhat.

The East guys have the numbers, were mad at ALPA and did what they could to give the majority (east pilots) better representation. This is actually quite democratic. They got the votes in a fair election and the majority rules.

The issue lies in the fact that the primary stated reason for forming USAPA is to undermine the West guys and impose DOH on the pilot group, years after the merger. I understand why the West is feeling lke they do. If I were a West guy I would not be paying dues to USAPA. Let them fire all 1,800 pilots in the west but do not pay the dues. I think it is unreasonable for the USAPA guys to actually think they will get support fom the west for a union whose purpose is to undermine them.

I am afraid that the main winner in this division is going to be management. I am also of the opinion that binding arbitration is binding. I am open to hearing arguments from East guys. I think that the West probably came out much better with the Nic award and I understand the angst with it...I just have a hard time forming a union for the purposes of dictating a seniority list to a smaller pilot group.

They DO have the numbers.
They WERE mad at ALPA.
It WAS democratic.
But it ISN'T "better" representation.

It was pandering to the masses and giving them what they asked for. Eventually, the masses will figure out (or maybe not) to be careful what you ask for.......you just might get it.

I predict fragmentation or liquidation within 24 months.

Just for education, is this the worst airline merger that has ever happened in terms of pilot group fragmentation and hostility? Have any others come close? The AA/TWA marriage was not good, with lots of bitterness about the outcome that still lingers...but it seems even those two groups can work together when needed on a flight deck. Not sure you could ever get an East and West guy in the same small space for any length of time without a rumble. Also, there are USAPA die-hards and AWAPPA die-hards...is this a relatively small group within each pilot-group, with the rest simply doing their jobs and trying to make the best of it...or is the animosity that appears on the message boards from the few indicative of the vitriol of the entire group?