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Quote:

Originally Posted by FredtheGnome (Post 388347)

Spanky,

I'm not too concerned about the binding arbitration part of this matter. I understand what it means. Personally, I'd like to keep the lawyers as far out of this as possible. For every lawyer that says it is final, there's another lawyer who says it isn't (usually based on who pays the retainer).

I'm concerned about the process that got us there. If the arbitrator gave a strict DOH ruling which made every USAir guy a capt and every AWA guy and FO, I'd be just as outraged.

I feel that the arbitrator's award was unduly influenced by management, and as such, set a dangerous precedent for future mergers and will be a detrement to all of our future professional QOL.

As such, I'd like to see the west guys take an active and constructive interest in the activities of USAPA. Come up with some agreement that they can all live with, and present the terms to management as part of a unified CBA. Most importantly, stop all the nonsense that was mentioned in the opening of this thread.

When I face a merger in the future (not if), I for one will make damn sure that I am not acting like most of the west guys in those "Can't stand the heat" videos. I would like to understand how the west guys feel that what they have is a fair award. If it was truly fair, and they gave up as much as they got, then why don't we make that process the standard for how we will deal with all future mergers?

Sorry to all those people who just spilled drinks on their keyboards reading that last line.

How can you not be concerned with 'binding arbitration'? What kind of precedent would that set in the future from credit card disputes, real estate contracts up to seniority lists?

Yes, lawyers are scum until you need one! I'll agree on that.

You can FEEL anything you want about the 'award' but if you don't have facts to back it up, it's just a feeling.

I'm with you on both sides stepping up and coming to an agreement that only makes 20% mad but voting out ALPA and starting their own 'EAST' union is very devisive.

Respectfully, SP

PS - I don't work for either. Just watching from the sidelines but think that binding is just that.

Is Awoopwoop the same guys that wanted ALPA gone from AW a few years back? me is confused...

Ok, I have to speak-up on this one. First of all, judging by your screen name, and by your number of posts, I assume you joined APC with the sole intention of using it as a tool to rally support for "West" pilots against "East" pilots. Though this apparently is not against the rules, I don't believe that this is what the creators of APC had in mind when they made this forum. Furthermore, I hope that your rallying cry is either ignored, or criticized for it's pilot-against-pilot message- even by those who may have some sympathy towards the west side.

To call USAirways pilots scabs is inaccurate and unfair. They have suffered through multiple mergers, bankruptcy, poor management and one of the most challenging route structures in the country, and through it all have tried continuously to maintain some semblance of strength as a pilot group. The move to create USAPA is a perfect example of their determination, and though it may be hasty and ultimately unsuccessful, it at least shows that they are united as a group and are taking some risks to try to secure a better future.

I have lived on the East Coast and flown on USAir my whole life. I have also worked in the USAir system for about half of my professional career. Though I haven't always agreed with everything this pilot group has done, they have at least made a respectable fight to keep themselves from being dragged to the bottom by the low-cost carriers, and outsourcing of their jobs to the regionals.

You will probably get more support and sympathy for your cause if you show a little respect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dashdog (Post 388372)

Whose post are you replying to? Cactiboss? He/she only has 11 posts, I'm confused?

I meant that he only has a few posts, which makes me think he just recently joined-with an agenda.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dashdog (Post 388372)

Of course I have an agenda, and thast is to communicate the crap the west is suffering at the hands of this "respectable" group as you call them. Obviously you and most outside the airlines are ignorant of the facts, the usair pilots have used their larger numbers to take our union away and to impose on the west whatever they want, you call that respectable? They have structured their union so that the west can get a maximum of 5 votes and the east gets 15, you think that's fair? The west makes up 38% of the pilot group, and yet we are powerless within this new union, we simply get outvoted. I call what the east did worst than being a scab, going back on your word and subjugating a smaller pilot group is down right criminal, but hey out east that's "respectable"

Yep, welcome to woop woop.... pass the prozac

Seriously, the USAPA guys cannot expect the AWA guys to be happy that ALPA was thrown out, can you? USAPA has won the battle, but don't expect the beaten group to be happy about it. The best way that USAPA can show that they are a legitimate union and not a group simply designed to overturn a binding arbitration award and impose their will on a smaller pilot group is to actually be a good union for all. What is USAPA doing about supplemental insurance that was available through ALPA? How are they handling cases of pilots that have grievances going - particularly west pilots? Is USAPA doing anything other than trying to overturn the Nic award? If so, please detail these things. I am not challenging these issues, simply asking about them and look forward to constructive responses. Thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ⌐ AV8OR WANNABE (Post 388121)

Also, I must say I have hard time understanding why some think that east USAir pilots are scabs? .
Can someone explain?

I think you'll find the scab threads started when word got out there were 400 Captain upgrades on the East vs 40 West in 2007.

Mind you, the operations are separate still but the Western thought process is the East stealing those Captain upgrades ( in the East domiciles on the East equipment)
from the West hence the scab moniker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FredtheGnome (Post 388306)

I'll admit that I am out of the loop. But as an impartial bystander you aren't exactly helping me see your side of things.

As far as USAPA not willing to budge on DOH, when I hear them talk about setting up fences, that sounds like they are accomodating you on the date of hire issue. That sounds like they are negotiating, and trying to come to an agreement that works for all USAir (east and west) pilots.

Responses like the ones that you two just gave does not make it sound like you are working toward a resolution. I am just hearing, "we won Nicolau, USAPA guys are losers, now it's Miller Time".

Send some reps to USAPA... let DOH stand and build the fences necessary to give your guys an equitable QOL. Tell those guys where to put the fence posts, (but not where the sun don't shine).

If there are other issues at hand, voice them. Tell us how the USAPA guys are screwing you over. Tell us how Nicolau is good for the profession, other than just being a cautionary tale.

Not 100% sure but the problem with DOH even with fences is that if USAir needs to furlough in the future it will all be west guys being furloughed.