I know YOU think you're witty with your remarks stated above, but you show your maturity level by your comments.

I think you're way off the mark trying to compare a terrorist/hijacker to a serial killer, if that was indeed your intent. Although both commit murder, the reasons are way different and are thus different "profiles."

Actually, your argument into "serial killers" supports the argument for the TSA to profile. Law enforcement and FBI uses profiling all of the time in order to track down murders and crimes(especially in serial murder cases). Does it work? Well, they are still using this technique and I would argue that if it didn't work, they wouldn't still be using it.

If someone were looking for a "serial killer", the first place they would look would be into a person that fits the demographic description you just described. Why? Because, based on statistics, a person with that profile is much more likely to be a serial killer than let's say a 80 year old grandma that can barely walk.

 

The HR department at every airline profiles. They look for a certain person with certain qualities, etc. No one likes it, but we all worked hard to get profiled by our respective airline companies and others we still would want to work for in the future. Customs just busted 226 grams of cocaine in SDF being shipped from Venezuela in a bike. I'd bet they used profiling to track it and seize it. Nothing is pure and clean in our Republic, mistakes are made, but am sure if the govt. had seized any one of the 911 hijackers competently, the howls would still be made and were with one. This Eagle pilot and those in a similiar situation will see this program improved, but the govt is not threatening to remove his licenses or ratings. Only his employer is threatening his job.
Big difference.

 

I agree with you for the most part, my post was in legal context to the situation.
There are several Muslim pilots flying around the skies today which are not on a "watch list", we don't know the history of this guy or his wife...should something have already happened, everyone would cast blame on the government for not stopping him when they knew he was a questionable figure.
If you were known to be an alcoholic and also a pilot would that justify putting you on a list?

I agree that the government is not the most efficient institution when it comes to protecting individual rights. Everyone has the right to free speech and the Founding Fathers would say that dissent of government is a good thing but how far do you take it?

 

What does profiling a serial killer have to do with terrorist attacks in America? What percentage of planes are crashed in to buildings or into the ocean by radical Islamic terrorists? That would seem to be a more likely thing to think about when I am on an airplane, not a white male Caucasian serial killer. I see where you are trying to go but in this case that line of thinking doesn't work.

 

Depending on the profile used, that is fine. For example previous DUI, accidents, and incidents. However, EEO prohibits an employer from making employment "decisions based on stereotypes or assumptions about the abilities, traits, or performance of individuals of a certain sex, race, age, religion, or ethnic group, or individuals with disabilities; and
denying employment opportunities to a person because of marriage to, or association with, an individual of a particular race, religion, national origin, or an individual with a disability. Title VII also prohibits discrimination because of participation in schools or places of worship associated with a particular racial, ethnic, or religious group." (Discriminatory Practices)


No, the feds have not taken his certificates away. But being on the watch list impacts his ability to clear security. This directly affects his employer for dead heading (may take too long to clear security to make the flight). It affects him directly by making him show up to work sooner to clear security (this may also affect the company regarding rest periods). And being on the list could make commuting virtually impossible.

Actually, the fact that the feds have NOT taken his certificates away begs the question Just How Worried About Him Are They? If he were a real risk of taking down an airplane, wouldn't taking his certificates be the first logical step to stop him? He IS SITTING at the controls: the bullet proof cockpit door is not gonna stop him!

The whole idea of a TSA watch list is absurd. It negatively impacts people who are no threat, while giving the bad guys a warning of being under investigation. Maybe the TSA figures the bad guys won't change their names.

 

When I started my 1st job at a Regional, I discovered on my 1st attempt to non-rev home during training that I was on the "no-fly" list. This was in November 2003.

I freaked out, but I was removed within two weeks after sending a copy of my passport and birth certificate to the DHS. And yes, I was told by my new company that I had 90 days to get my name removed from the list or I would be terminated.

I find it hard to believe they would be taking this long to remove someone unless there was a legitimate reason.

 

Your situation sounds different...your name was probably similar to or the same as someone on the list. In your case, all they did was make sure that you were not the person of interest...once that was done, they probably flagged you by DOB, passport, etc as being OK. There are probably other folks out there with your name who would have to go through the same process if they try to fly.

The gentleman in question is not a victim of ambigous identity...he IS the intended target, so now the question becomes one of legitimacy. Does TSA have good reason for their action. It's entirely possible that they have no incriminating info on the guy, but are simply "playing it safe" based on his wife's associations, be they deliberate or coincidental. Is that the right answer? No, probably not. Unfortunately it's hard to have a valid opinion either way without all the info.

 

Not true. Now that we have databases and sophisticated tamper-resistant passports, it's getting harder to buy a functional fake in a back alley. You can get one that will work at a hotel or a border check-point on a east-european two-lane highway, but not one that will hold up at a US CBP screening.

You pretty much need a real passport now, and there are three ways to get one...

- Use your real one.
- Convince/Bribe a sympathetic foriegn government or employee thereof to issue you a real one under a phony name.
- Steal/borrow one from someone who looks a lot like you.

Anti-terrorism is the art of putting roadblocks and random, variable measures to make the bad guy's planning process difficult. High-end terrorists do not conduct desperation operations which have a high risk of failure...this will make them look like idiots in world opinion and, more importantly, to their financiers back home.

Remember, you don't necessarily have to stop the suicide bomber...for every one of those there are five or so support players (logistics, finance, transport, recon, command) who also need to move about freely to prepare the operation. These folks are usually older, more educated, have families...ie a lot more to lose and not so willing to die for the cause. They are less likely to take chances.

 

The idea of the watch list IS NOT absurd. The way TSA runs it IS absurd. Everyone in the media complained the govt should have connected the dots on the 911 hijackers, do you remember? The govt response was what the media clamored for in editorial after editorial and in the news. Govt collected all resources and lunped them on a watch list. Now, we decry that the govt is doing what they were asked. Oh, rich irony. The only thing I decry is the absurdity of maintaining the list accurately. But even in that, their is a method to the madness from a prevention angle. TSA does follow the EEO laws, they don't care if you are 8 or 800, young, old. Race, religeon matters not, push a trigger, then on the list. Like I stated, TSA runs it poorly though thus discounting it's value in public perception.

 

Pleassssssssssssssse.give me a break. Muslims are not liked in this country just like blacks and asians, mexicans and..................... they're just tolerated. This administration along thier fox news channel let every rebel flag swingin redneck a free pass to take a jab at the religion and innocent people every chance they get. You know what we don't need any ones petty and sympothy because this racist police policy is way beyond your or evevryones grade. Remember the japanies were caged like birds during ww2, this is no different. So spare me with all your excuses that why every body with dark skin color needs to be profiled because i sure don't remember any white guys getting lined up for questioning everyday after timothy mcviegh blow up ok city building.