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About Cargo 360
First, I would like to bring this conversation back to a professional level.
About Cargo360. We as a company are almost nine months old. I am truly sorry for any comments by our pilots that may have seemed overly enthusiastic or rude. We are starting a company at a very difficult time in the airline industry. Aircraft, of suitable quality, are hard to acquire. Fuel costs are high. There are many pilots out of work and there has been great downward wage and compensation pressure on our profession. Our pilot cadre is mostly filled with great people who want a decent quality of life for their families, appropriate compensation and a company that will succeed in today’s environment. From the beginning of the start up process, our pilots have given a great deal of time and effort to get this company off the ground. We have also managed to gain some very important QOL issues while maintaining a positive relationship with our management team. The truth. We have a very competitive first year pay: 67.50 for FO's and FE's, and 110.00 for Capt's. Blue Cross Premeria for health care. Very good coverage with low co-pays. Home basing of pilots. We get a hotel room at the start and end of every trip and a ticket both ways at company expense. (This was gained by the pilot cadre, working with management, after several months of operation). 24 days of Paid Free Time per year. (30 for Capt). Paid at 3 hours per day. This can be used as vacation or sick days. 2.00 hour per Diem. 3hours of pay per DH. 401k w/3% company match. This will start in fall of 07. Profit share of 15% of company profits. This will start in spring of 08. 2K per month pay in training Negatives 16K training bond. There is no check written or moneys transferred. Pilots sign a two year bond that decreases 25% every six months. Per Diem is only given when not in flight. Yes this is an item we are working to change. Pay scale is not published for years past year one. We are also working to get this changed. Pilots are not given hotels for the one week of training in SEA, or transportation to SEA for training. Hotels and transportation is given to all other aspects of company training, or business. We are trying to change this but it is lower on our list because it is rather standard for many companies. Pilot base is still technically SEA. We got home basing for all other aspects of our business so we feel this may change in the future. Our Path forward Being so new, and only having three aircraft, we are still a fly speck compared to many other companies in the industry. We just want to succeed as a company and build this into a place where we can be proud of working. Instead of pointing fingers at the newest company in the ACMI business and accusing us of being the downfall of the industry we ask that you give us a reasonable time to grow and build or work rules to meet or beat the industry standard. It is totally unreasonable to expect that we are going to put upward wage pressure on the ACMI industry in our first year of operations. Just my 2 cents. |
the starting pay is "decent" compared to airlines that are fresh out of BK, and I commend you on trying to get a published pay scale past year 1, as this is CRITICAL. The fact is, many airlines like MaxJet have starting pay scales that are predicated on other airlines with similar year 1 pay.. but the critical difference is that those airlines usually no captains junior to 6-7 years in that type of equipment, while in the case of these new airlines, their entire cadre is year 1. So then the managers will thru them a meager 4% a year adjustment and call that a pay scale, which is not acceptable.
I say best of luck, and when the honeymoon ends (and it will) give ALPA a call. |
I thank you for your wish of good luck. On the ALPA issue, they or the Teamsters will not even talk to us until we pass the 100 pilot mark. Presently at 70.
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SM,
How many more pilots are they looking to hire? I do agree with CE750 on the published pay scale being critical. When Dutch posted there were no pay raises I stopped in my tracks and have not submitted my application. I also was less keen on SEA (not really a big deal), but I love the home basing concept (big plus in my eyes). |
Originally Posted by CE750
(Post 98074)
the starting pay is "decent" compared to airlines that are fresh out of BK, and I commend you on trying to get a published pay scale past year 1, as this is CRITICAL. The fact is, many airlines like MaxJet have starting pay scales that are predicated on other airlines with similar year 1 pay.. but the critical difference is that those airlines usually no captains junior to 6-7 years in that type of equipment, while in the case of these new airlines, their entire cadre is year 1. So then the managers will thru them a meager 4% a year adjustment and call that a pay scale, which is not acceptable.
I say best of luck, and when the honeymoon ends (and it will) give ALPA a call. So much for ALPA being fair and equitable for everyone. They only help you when your group is big enough financially to make the dues worth their "time and effort"...... ALPA although has done much, they are still a biz and they do a good job of watching the balance sheets! |
Anyone that wants to know what ALPA will do for little guys should talk to an ex Emery Worldwide crewmember.
Originally Posted by cac737
(Post 98112)
[/U][/B]
So much for ALPA being fair and equitable for everyone. They only help you when your group is big enough financially to make the dues worth their "time and effort"...... ALPA although has done much, they are still a biz and they do a good job of watching the balance sheets! |
To answer the question of hiring, we will hire some PFE's in the next few months. We are trying to get out of the SO gig. The cost of retraining a pilot after a year to FO is not effective money management. We will probably start hiring FO's in the summer.
The published pay scale is important. This is an issue that the management is working on getting fixed. We have a very good relationship with our management team right now and we are willing to work these issues out in a manor that benefits everyone. We definitely have our issues but if you look at the other carriers in our category: http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airli...rgo/atlas.html http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airli...evergreen.html http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airli...focus_air.html http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airli...litta_air.html http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airli...rgo/polar.html http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airli...thern_air.html http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airli...radewinds.html There is just no way you can say our first year pay is dragging down the wage. We are better then some fifth and sixth years pay. Hopefully we will trend more toward the top of the scale. Only time and hard work will tell. |
Thanks
SM,
Thanks for the honest and unemotional comment on C360. I'm interested, and hope they're hiring when I'm ready in a year or so. As for the ALPA cheerleader, point taken. When the time comes, hopefully ALPA will be invited to C360 and HOPEFULLY it will do them some good. But I'd guess there are as many pro-ALPA types out there as not, so your mileage may vary... Mink |
Originally Posted by Stick Monkey
(Post 98068)
First, I would like to bring this conversation back to a professional level.
About Cargo360. We as a company are almost nine months old. I am truly sorry for any comments by our pilots that may have seemed overly enthusiastic or rude. We are starting a company at a very difficult time in the airline industry. Aircraft, of suitable quality, are hard to acquire. Fuel costs are high. There are many pilots out of work and there has been great downward wage and compensation pressure on our profession. Our pilot cadre is mostly filled with great people who want a decent quality of life for their families, appropriate compensation and a company that will succeed in today’s environment. From the beginning of the start up process, our pilots have given a great deal of time and effort to get this company off the ground. We have also managed to gain some very important QOL issues while maintaining a positive relationship with our management team. The truth. We have a very competitive first year pay: 67.50 for FO's and FE's, and 110.00 for Capt's. Blue Cross Premeria for health care. Very good coverage with low co-pays. Home basing of pilots. We get a hotel room at the start and end of every trip and a ticket both ways at company expense. (This was gained by the pilot cadre, working with management, after several months of operation). 24 days of Paid Free Time per year. (30 for Capt). Paid at 3 hours per day. This can be used as vacation or sick days. 2.00 hour per Diem. 3hours of pay per DH. 401k w/3% company match. This will start in fall of 07. Profit share of 15% of company profits. This will start in spring of 08. 2K per month pay in training Negatives 16K training bond. There is no check written or moneys transferred. Pilots sign a two year bond that decreases 25% every six months. Per Diem is only given when not in flight. Yes this is an item we are working to change. Pay scale is not published for years past year one. We are also working to get this changed. Pilots are not given hotels for the one week of training in SEA, or transportation to SEA for training. Hotels and transportation is given to all other aspects of company training, or business. We are trying to change this but it is lower on our list because it is rather standard for many companies. Pilot base is still technically SEA. We got home basing for all other aspects of our business so we feel this may change in the future. Our Path forward Being so new, and only having three aircraft, we are still a fly speck compared to many other companies in the industry. We just want to succeed as a company and build this into a place where we can be proud of working. Instead of pointing fingers at the newest company in the ACMI business and accusing us of being the downfall of the industry we ask that you give us a reasonable time to grow and build or work rules to meet or beat the industry standard. It is totally unreasonable to expect that we are going to put upward wage pressure on the ACMI industry in our first year of operations. Just my 2 cents. SM, You got your money's worth! Well said, dittos.... Fly Safe SD |
Hey, thanks for the intel Stick. Waiting to see how our company's going to fare in negotiations, but if it all goes south, Cargo 360 is hopefully my next stop.
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