AAI & LUV code-share?
10-23-2008, 04:02 PM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
AAI & LUV code-share?
Citrus (& SWA) drivers - do you think this could be a good deal for you? Maybe even a future merger/buyout? If so, would you be for or against it?
No negative comments on either of the two airlines - just your honest opinions and reasons behind them please.
AirTran would discuss codesharing with Southwest
Thursday October 23, 4:34 pm ET By Harry R. Weber, AP Business Writer
AirTran swings to 3rd-quarter loss; willing to discuss codeshare deal with Southwest
ATLANTA (AP) -- Discount carrier AirTran Airways would be willing to discuss a codeshare agreement with larger rival Southwest Airlines Co., its chief said Thursday as its parent company reported it swung to a $107.1 million third-quarter loss despite a double-digit rise in sales.
"If Southwest was willing to talk, we'd certainly be willing to listen," AirTran Chief Executive Bob Fornaro told analysts on a conference call.
Codeshare agreements allow airlines to sell seats on each other's planes.
Fornaro said AirTran and Southwest, to date, have not discussed the idea. He added in an interview with The Associated Press, "We'll see what the future brings."
A Southwest spokeswoman, Beth Harbin, declined to comment on Fornaro's remarks. She said Southwest was "really focused now on Canada and Mexico."
Calyon Securities analyst Ray Neidl said "crisis breeds strange bedfellows and the current economic malaise may be the incentive for them to do something even though they are competitive in some markets."
Dallas-based Southwest currently does not serve Atlanta, home to the world's busiest airport. AirTran, a unit of Orlando, Fla.-based AirTran Holdings Inc., has its hub in Atlanta, where it competes head-to-head on many domestic routes with Delta Air Lines Inc. Delta has a codeshare agreement with Eagan, Minn.-based Northwest Airlines Corp. Delta is planning to acquire Northwest in a stock-swap deal it hopes to close by the end of the year.
AirTran also serves several major cities in the Northeast that Southwest does not fly to. Southwest, on the other hand, has much larger scale than AirTran throughout the U.S. AirTran could benefit from that scale if the two were to ink a codeshare agreement, Fornaro said.
"We would be much more interested at this point in time than perhaps two or three years ago," Fornaro told AP.
Fornaro said AirTran has developed the ability with its reservation system over the last several years to accommodate a codesharing arrangement if it chose to proceed with one.
In July, Southwest announced its first international codesharing deal, with Canadian low-fare carrier WestJet Airlines Ltd. Details of the arrangement have not been disclosed, but Southwest jets will not go to Canada; WestJet planes will fly over the border to U.S. cities served by Southwest.
Southwest CEO Gary Kelly has also said the airline would like a similar agreement to connect passengers to Mexico and the Caribbean by late 2009, and to Europe and beyond in later years.
Southwest is also looking for a new partner to offer Hawaii flights. Southwest sold seats to Hawaii until partner ATA Airlines filed for bankruptcy and stopped flying.
AirTran will launch service to Cancun, Mexico, on Feb. 25. Also, an AirTran partner carrier offers flights to several destinations in Mexico, and AirTran customers can link to those flights through AirTran's Web site. AirTran does not serve Hawaii.
As for its results, AirTran's net loss in the July-September quarter was equivalent to 91 cents a share, compared with a profit of $10.6 million, or 11 cents per share, in the same quarter a year ago. The results missed Wall Street expectations.
AirTran said it sustained non-operating losses related to its fuel hedging program of $41.5 million in the July-September quarter. It also had a $10.4 million gain on aircraft sales. It reported an adjusted net loss of $61.9 million, or 53 cents a share.
Revenue in the quarter rose 10.6 percent to $673.3 million from $608.6 million.
Analysts surveyed by Thomson Reuters, who generally exclude one-time items from their estimates, expected a loss of 39 cents a share on revenue of $675.7 million.
For the first nine months of the year, AirTran's net loss was $155.4 million, or $1.46 a share, compared to a profit of $54.9 million, or 57 cents a share, a year earlier. Nine-month revenue rose 13.7 percent to $1.96 billion, compared to $1.73 billion a year earlier.
Persistently high fuel prices have hampered the entire industry. Even with the recent steep decline in oil prices, fuel prices are still high by historical standards, and the worsening economy has raised concern among some carriers that demand for air travel could weaken heading into next year.
Like other airlines, AirTran has cut capacity, shed jobs, implemented new fees and made other changes to deal with high fuel costs.
Last month, AirTran's chief financial officer said the new fees have not caused a big change in customer demand at the airline. He said the fees are generating tens of millions of dollars for the carrier. The CFO said AirTran has had a very challenging year, but its fundamentals remain strong.
Fornaro said Thursday that AirTran has chosen not to impose a fee on a first checked bag largely because Delta has chosen not to. If Delta changed its mind, AirTran would seriously consider changing its mind, too, Fornaro said.
Currently, several carriers say that advance bookings show their planes are expected to be as full as or fuller than a year ago over the late fall and winter holidays in part because they have taken so many seats out of the air. AirTran's CFO, Arne Haak, said advance bookings for the Christmas holiday look good for the airline.
Haak said Thursday that AirTran's capacity will be down 6 percent to 7 percent in the fourth quarter, compared to the same period a year ago. He said the airline would be willing to reduce its fleet size further under the right circumstances.
In trading Thursday, AirTran shares fell 25 cents, or 7.3 percent, to close at $3.20, while Southwest shares fell 14 cents to close at $11.86.
AP Business Writer David Koenig contributed to this report from Dallas.
No negative comments on either of the two airlines - just your honest opinions and reasons behind them please.
AirTran would discuss codesharing with Southwest
Thursday October 23, 4:34 pm ET By Harry R. Weber, AP Business Writer
AirTran swings to 3rd-quarter loss; willing to discuss codeshare deal with Southwest
ATLANTA (AP) -- Discount carrier AirTran Airways would be willing to discuss a codeshare agreement with larger rival Southwest Airlines Co., its chief said Thursday as its parent company reported it swung to a $107.1 million third-quarter loss despite a double-digit rise in sales.
"If Southwest was willing to talk, we'd certainly be willing to listen," AirTran Chief Executive Bob Fornaro told analysts on a conference call.
Codeshare agreements allow airlines to sell seats on each other's planes.
Fornaro said AirTran and Southwest, to date, have not discussed the idea. He added in an interview with The Associated Press, "We'll see what the future brings."
A Southwest spokeswoman, Beth Harbin, declined to comment on Fornaro's remarks. She said Southwest was "really focused now on Canada and Mexico."
Calyon Securities analyst Ray Neidl said "crisis breeds strange bedfellows and the current economic malaise may be the incentive for them to do something even though they are competitive in some markets."
Dallas-based Southwest currently does not serve Atlanta, home to the world's busiest airport. AirTran, a unit of Orlando, Fla.-based AirTran Holdings Inc., has its hub in Atlanta, where it competes head-to-head on many domestic routes with Delta Air Lines Inc. Delta has a codeshare agreement with Eagan, Minn.-based Northwest Airlines Corp. Delta is planning to acquire Northwest in a stock-swap deal it hopes to close by the end of the year.
AirTran also serves several major cities in the Northeast that Southwest does not fly to. Southwest, on the other hand, has much larger scale than AirTran throughout the U.S. AirTran could benefit from that scale if the two were to ink a codeshare agreement, Fornaro said.
"We would be much more interested at this point in time than perhaps two or three years ago," Fornaro told AP.
Fornaro said AirTran has developed the ability with its reservation system over the last several years to accommodate a codesharing arrangement if it chose to proceed with one.
In July, Southwest announced its first international codesharing deal, with Canadian low-fare carrier WestJet Airlines Ltd. Details of the arrangement have not been disclosed, but Southwest jets will not go to Canada; WestJet planes will fly over the border to U.S. cities served by Southwest.
Southwest CEO Gary Kelly has also said the airline would like a similar agreement to connect passengers to Mexico and the Caribbean by late 2009, and to Europe and beyond in later years.
Southwest is also looking for a new partner to offer Hawaii flights. Southwest sold seats to Hawaii until partner ATA Airlines filed for bankruptcy and stopped flying.
AirTran will launch service to Cancun, Mexico, on Feb. 25. Also, an AirTran partner carrier offers flights to several destinations in Mexico, and AirTran customers can link to those flights through AirTran's Web site. AirTran does not serve Hawaii.
As for its results, AirTran's net loss in the July-September quarter was equivalent to 91 cents a share, compared with a profit of $10.6 million, or 11 cents per share, in the same quarter a year ago. The results missed Wall Street expectations.
AirTran said it sustained non-operating losses related to its fuel hedging program of $41.5 million in the July-September quarter. It also had a $10.4 million gain on aircraft sales. It reported an adjusted net loss of $61.9 million, or 53 cents a share.
Revenue in the quarter rose 10.6 percent to $673.3 million from $608.6 million.
Analysts surveyed by Thomson Reuters, who generally exclude one-time items from their estimates, expected a loss of 39 cents a share on revenue of $675.7 million.
For the first nine months of the year, AirTran's net loss was $155.4 million, or $1.46 a share, compared to a profit of $54.9 million, or 57 cents a share, a year earlier. Nine-month revenue rose 13.7 percent to $1.96 billion, compared to $1.73 billion a year earlier.
Persistently high fuel prices have hampered the entire industry. Even with the recent steep decline in oil prices, fuel prices are still high by historical standards, and the worsening economy has raised concern among some carriers that demand for air travel could weaken heading into next year.
Like other airlines, AirTran has cut capacity, shed jobs, implemented new fees and made other changes to deal with high fuel costs.
Last month, AirTran's chief financial officer said the new fees have not caused a big change in customer demand at the airline. He said the fees are generating tens of millions of dollars for the carrier. The CFO said AirTran has had a very challenging year, but its fundamentals remain strong.
Fornaro said Thursday that AirTran has chosen not to impose a fee on a first checked bag largely because Delta has chosen not to. If Delta changed its mind, AirTran would seriously consider changing its mind, too, Fornaro said.
Currently, several carriers say that advance bookings show their planes are expected to be as full as or fuller than a year ago over the late fall and winter holidays in part because they have taken so many seats out of the air. AirTran's CFO, Arne Haak, said advance bookings for the Christmas holiday look good for the airline.
Haak said Thursday that AirTran's capacity will be down 6 percent to 7 percent in the fourth quarter, compared to the same period a year ago. He said the airline would be willing to reduce its fleet size further under the right circumstances.
In trading Thursday, AirTran shares fell 25 cents, or 7.3 percent, to close at $3.20, while Southwest shares fell 14 cents to close at $11.86.
AP Business Writer David Koenig contributed to this report from Dallas.
10-23-2008, 06:12 PM
#3
Weekend and Holiday Pilot
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Sippin' at the Troubadour
Posts: 1,141
Originally Posted by LuvJockey
No offense to the AirTran guys, we would consider this to be outsourcing.
10-23-2008, 06:27 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 191
Originally Posted by Doug Masters
So much for that "no negative comment thing." Some of you LUV guys are amazing. Remember, pride cometh before the fall.
Last edited by BoeingTanker; 10-23-2008 at 06:59 PM.
10-23-2008, 06:44 PM
#5
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 90
Originally Posted by Doug Masters
So much for that "no negative comment thing." Some of you LUV guys are amazing. Remember, pride cometh before the fall.
A more diplomatic response might be "no thanks". I don't want to speak for AAI but I bet the pilots feel the same way. You want to grow your airline with your own people flying your aircraft. Aren't most pilots against code-sharing or am I alone on this?
10-23-2008, 06:54 PM
#6
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,868
Originally Posted by LuvJockey
Too many issues with regards to growing the airline, and traffic on other airlines. No offense to the AirTran guys, we would consider this to be outsourcing.
In July, Southwest announced its first international codesharing deal, with Canadian low-fare carrier WestJet Airlines Ltd. Details of the arrangement have not been disclosed, but Southwest jets will not go to Canada; WestJet planes will fly over the border to U.S. cities served by Southwest.
First a loss and now a code share. You guys are becoming more and more like the rest of us.
And before the SWA defenders rise up in indignation - I think SWA is one of the best, if not the best run airline in the US. But like I have said on these boards numerous times - the next 10 years are not going to be like the last 10.Scoop
10-23-2008, 10:41 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: In the bunk
Posts: 394
Hopefully we learn from history how codesharing has affected our fellow pilots at other airlines.
I still think the westjet codeshare benefits westjet more than us. Codesharing internationally to Europe and Asia is one thing, but codesharing to places we can easily go with the 737 is something completely different.
I still think the westjet codeshare benefits westjet more than us. Codesharing internationally to Europe and Asia is one thing, but codesharing to places we can easily go with the 737 is something completely different.
10-24-2008, 02:06 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Originally Posted by Doug Masters
So much for that "no negative comment thing." Some of you LUV guys are amazing. Remember, pride cometh before the fall.
I have no idea why you made this comment. It would be outsourcing pure and simple. Its a disasterous path for the SW pilots to embark on. Once they go there they can kiss most of their future growth goodbye. This type of setup is however a management dream vacation at most airlines. They love to pit employees against each other. Since SW management generally supports their employees I don't see this happening.
10-24-2008, 05:33 AM
#9
Weekend and Holiday Pilot
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Sippin' at the Troubadour
Posts: 1,141
Originally Posted by sailingfun
I have no idea why you made this comment. It would be outsourcing pure and simple.
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