Waterboarder,

Chirp, Chirp??? I knew this guy was in management.

Patience my Friend,

Unlike some of you I have a life outside this forum.
If you are making $55/h in your third year, you are on the E190.

It was YOUR CHOICE three years ago to pick it over the A320.
It was YOUR CHOICE three years ago to hire on with JBLU which had the highest first year/new hire pay in the industry.

You fail to mention that your $55/h will turn into $100K+ as soon as you switch seats.

Explain to me how that $55/h will change by voting in a Union?
Automatic pay increase?
First it will take about a year until the union is legally up and running.
During that time, no negotiations between company and pilots, because they just gave up the right to deal directly with management.
Then the new contract needs to be negotiated.
No yearly review of pay issues, as we have right now, during that time.

Am I against pay raises? Of course, not.
Let’s assume the new contract, usually good for five years, will get some more
money into the hands of the pilots.
How much money do I have to pay for Union dues?
How much money are the Union reps being paid for not flying?
What if company does not want to give us a pay increase? Then what?
Are you ready to strike? How long are you willing to?

You want to talk numbers? Give them to me.
You probably have no clue.

Go ahead; try to convince me to vote for a Union.
I don’t except more than a one-line answer from you crybabies.

Good luck with the union, just wait till the company starts outsourcing your jobs though codeshare like their doing with us right now.
At least with a union you can hopefully get a good scope clause in your contract.

A union will save your job when the company unfairly tries to fire you. Through scope clauses, a union will prevent all or some of your flying from being shifted to other carriers. I'm not familiar with what kind of leverage you use with the company right now at JetBlue, but it sounds like you're stuck with what the company decides to pay you. The best contracts in this industry have always been at union carriers. Someday, push is going to come to shove and you'll be glad the "crybabies" over there voted in a union where you're paying less than two percent of your wages for the protections and leverage you'll get.

One thing to consider that i have not seen mentioned, has to do with mergers and acquisitions. If another airline buys JBLU, you can all be stapled on the bottom as was done with Morris Air (non union) when SWA bought them. If you have a collective bargaining agreement (union), you could negotiate an integration or have it decided by an arbiter. If SWA were to ever buy another airline, I sure hope that they are not collectively represented. I do wish you guys the best in whatever you decide though.

I'm not a JB 3yr 190 guy.

I'm sure you know the 3rd yr pay rates at the Majors you brought up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WaterBoarder (Post 505914)

Go ahead; try to convince me to vote for a Union.

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That's you're choice, not mine. I'm not a staunch union guy but at the same time, I don't feel that unions should be branded as adversarial.

Let's be honest. Union membership is in decline across most industries. However, there are some unions that have great relationships with management. At the same time, some of these firms are very healthy.
I think any venture has to be researched and studied. Why should unions be any different?

AL

Water,

Seems obvious to me that your in this for yourself, which is pretty disappointing. What if it wasn't your choice to be on the 190? Everyone in my class wanted the 320 but the youngest guys got the 190. How about looking out for everyone or are you above that?

I didnt know that anyone trying to improve the industry for the future made them "crybabies" but you go ahead and believe that. If you were fired tommorrow who is going to go in fighting to save your job?? Dave Barger or would you rather have some pilots that do your job and understand your job going to bat for you? Your gratify me now mentality works for today but what about tommorrow?? I lay you money if you were canned you would be screaming for representation.

As far as upgrades and making a 100k, I dont know if you've been sleeping for the last few system bids but there is no movements to captain at all and probably wont be for a while. You didn't answer my question earlier, are you in management or are you really a pilot at jb?

Herk,
Really hate to ask you this on here, but weren't you against a union awhile back? Sorry if I missed something, but I was just curious what or if you've changed your mind. Seriously, not trying to start something, just interested if you've changed your point of view.
Thanks!

I'm pro union so not sure what you are referring to. We share this computer in the crashpad so I dont know.

I'm an outsider (big brown) and am pro-union myself however I'm not sure you can use this buyout/merger argument here. For example being part of a union didn't help the TWA pilots in the so called acquisition by AA (my TWA friends called it ‘union authorized rape’ :eek:).

There are many other good reasons for joining a union I just don't think this is one of them.

I too wish you all the best whether you decide to join a union (would be my choice) or not.