Anybody have a Bud lately? Better check, it's owned by InBev out of Belgium. So only drink Sam Adams. How many here are driving cars other than GM, Ford or Chrysler? If you don't buy 100% American owned, than I believe we should be careful making the cabatoge arguement. Just don't drive to the cabatoge SOS picket line in a Honda.

I am no fan of cabatoge and think it would not be a good thing for this industry. Just look at your own lives and think what products you use that are not US owned.

The new USAF tanker may finally be an Airbus product. All I am saying is that the cabatoge argument is losing steam in this global economy. And the influx of loans from China keeping the US economy afloat?

 

What percentage of those cars were built in the USA and what percentage were built or assembled by Americans? Becareful about advocating GM, Ford or Chrysler as 100% American over a Toyota built in Huntsville, Alabama; Georgetown, Kentucky; Princeton, Indiana; San Antonio, Texas or Buffalo, West Virginia.

Cabotage is coming whether we like it or not. I don't like cabotage either but being in denial about it coming at us doesn't help us. The more we are divided as union pilots the faster it will get here.

 

Built and owned by American's is two different things entirely. You can buy a car from Honda that was made here, but that money still goes to a foreign owner.

 

First off if you have to write that it's sarcasm, it's not that good. Your asking why I don't think VA needs to take a 30% pay cut? If pay cuts are needed at that low of a rate then the company is already failing and those cuts won't save it.

I like how you are comparing VA to delta, nwa, united, american and southwest. I'll give you southwest but the others were start ups when there weren't any other airlines. They were the originals. It only took southwest 30 years to catch up and that is only because the others fell. They never caught up or really fought to catch up in the first 30 years. I'm waiting to see how they do on their TA.

Threads on other airlines have all been out there. Jetblue had a bunch on here.

You want to give Virgin pilots the benefit of the doubt that's fine. I'm just waiting to see a pilot group actually fight to catch up and do it. I've heard pilots say "don't pick on me, we've only been around for 30 years and it's only our second contract." My response is what have you been waiting for this whole time. An airtran pilot's comment once was "it's tough to get a pay raise now that the rest have fallen to just above us."

As for not liking competition, when did I ever say that. I would love competition. I love that frontier, jetblue, virgin and airtran have entertainment on their airplanes. It makes the others have to compete. If you are talking about competing against other pilot groups who are undercutting the rest of the industry pilots then I'm completely against that. Let management do the competing.

You are right I'm not a business major and if you are I hope you are asking for a refund. Yes I believe they could be paying industry standard from day one. If they are a startup then their pilots will be paid 1st, 2nd and 3rd year CA and FO rates vs. the higher year rates of established carriers. There's already an advantage built in.

I do like that you won't even give an opinion as to when a start up should pay industry standard. That's the same answer everyone gives.

 

Very true. You said he was a hardcore trade unionist and that he fought for the little guy. Then he went to 2 non union airlines that under paid it's pilots. That isn't very Hardcore. Unless hardcore to you means "only when it fits into my plans".

I hate to break it to you but your friend is part of the reason for the union becoming more irrelevant these day.

Hypothetical question. On your merit based promotions (upgrades or transitions to larger airplanes) how do you determine who gets the upgrade or the larger airplane?

 

I don't think the pilots at the majors appreciate the VA payscales either.

 

Those pilots should know the word by the time they are qualified to work at VA. I highly doubt that they don't know it unless they are military and even then I bet they would learn it rather quickly.

 

Hey I see a lot of United dudes flying on VA so it goes both ways. You do not see va as a future swa? What makes you qualified to make that assumption? Just wondering. The JS is not a tool to barter, we all use the JS on other carriers at some point. Don't make the "I am holier than thou" argument because if you needed a ride and VA was your last chance to get home, you would be asking for a ride wouldnt you? Disclaimer...I dont work for VA.

 

I for one don't like to see other pilots losing jobs, even if it is VA or whoever. If these guys and gals were out of work many of them would be screwed.

 

Spoken like a defender of American management.

Here's the difference between an American-owned company with outsourced workers and a Japanese-owned company building cars in America.

Profits of the outsourcing American-owned company go straight into a manager's pocket so he can invest in a bigger factory in Mexico and outsource jobs.

Income from jobs in America go into Joe the Plumber's pocket. Which is better?

The fact is, due to the globalization of the economy, it is very difficult to tell what is made where.