757,

A Delta flight gets designated 'Payload Optimized' on the flight plan when either revenue pax or cargo will be left behind or the flight is planned to be within 500 lbs of MTOW/RATOW. The payload optimization program automatically sets in motion a number of items. Dispatch reviews the entire fuel load, the Load planners eliminate any tolerance, rampers use actual bin weights and gate agents use child weights. The clearing of non-revs is taken away from the gate agents and given to the load planners to determine if any wiggle room remains. Many of the things you might do to squeeze some extra pounds are done as soon as the flight is designated 'payload optimized'. As I mentioned, the union did manage to get a reserved Delta jumpseater as guaranteed on these flights.

I'm a domestic narrowbody guy, so I don't run up against this too often, and the few times I have, it ends up being a takeoff with some sort of bizarre flap and packs off combination because we are right at limits. I've been a commuter my entire career.....never known anything but commuting, so I'm very attuned to non-rev woes. I've gone up to the gate podium to referee jumpseat arguments and held the cabin door open for non revs running down the jetway. However, if I'm handed weight and balance paperwork that tells me I'm right at MTOW and this Optimization program is supposedly designed to wring out all the pounds it can, there's not much you can do. I'd certainly make a few calls, but I'm not sure you'd get very far. Again, I'm not an international guy and to the best of my knowledge I've never had to leave non revs behind on a "Payload Optimzed' designated flight. Some of the widebody guys might have some better war stories.

 

I am not trying to trash Delta all good points, however message was passed at cruise FL300. both planes departed within 5 minutes. I would not ask for anything during a critical phase of flight. I also know when I have been slighted. My frustrations are over. No further response is required, but thanks for the info. I have learned a little bit here. Notsofast out.

 

I frequently fly Istanbul-New York, and we often have to leave nonrevs at the gate, despite having 30 or 40 empty seats, because we are full of cargo. A normal takeoff from there is at the aircraft's max takeoff weight. We use child weights when possible, but there's no fudging the numbers when it comes to Max Operating Weight.

Also bear in mind that we use an assumed number for passenger weight that is, IMO, a little on the low side.

I love you guys like brothers and all, but, if it comes to a jumpseater/ nonrev or income-producing cargo, the boxes are going to win. DL needs the money...

BTW, I've been a victim of this in Istanbul also. The gate agents deal with this all the time, and will put you on Air France to Paris, to pick up a Delta flight.

 

How did the message get passed? ATC? Guard?

 

I guess we all are victims of the Captains authority going by the wayside. Its a shame when load planning tells you what you will carry and when.

Its not only a Delta thing as it happens over here as well. I guess I'm lucky enough to not fly the extremely weight limited flights and I'm very pro-active when it comes to getting jumpseaters and non-revs on the aircraft.

 

Yeah, we used to be able to do that until we had a change in our FOM.
See, DAL finally realized that they were leaving millions in cargo on the ramp for non-revs. This gave birth to Payload Optimization.
When this stuff started we were bumping pilots and F/A's off the J/S's that they used to get to work. After a lot of fussing and hard work by the union we had a revision to the FOM policy. We as DAL pilots and FA's now get the jumpseat before revenue cargo. Doing this sort of thing actually makes a lot of sense from a business stand point.
All of this is in an effort to make our under wing cargo operation reliable and profitable.
Since the inception of this many international destinations have had issues with non-revs seeing 50+ open seats and not making it on the flight.
Of note a lot of our Africa flying is the same way. We carry a ton of game meat out of the continent.

 

To what countries? It is against US Dept of Agriculture regulations to import wild game or meat of any kind without a proper license.

 

It does not make it to this country. It off loads at the interim destinations.

 

What countries does DAL stop at going from Africa to USA? I find it interesting that we would carry much meat with importation rules the way they are. As a big game hunter with friends that hunt Africa regularly none of them I have spoken with have heard of meat exiting the counrty. In fact most ranches and guides rules stipulate that the game may be eaten while on the hunt (most hunters want this plus it saves the guides food bill) and any left over is the guides/ranches property.

 

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