Wish I could get some of the ALPA gurus at FedEx to look at it that way too.

Undeterred, we will continue to get taken to the woodshed by management, doing it the way we've always done it.

 

Please use our past failures to secure everyone's future gains...

 

I keep wondering how ALPA's legal staff seems to be light years BEHIND managements. You'd think with all the dues we pay, we'd have better than just "mediocre" legal representation negotiating for us.............. Instead, they've become masters at writing unreadable contracts that are filled with so many holes for management, that swiss cheese looks solid in comparison.

 

Any SW guys out there that can provide some numbers? Something must have leaked by know.

 

Haven't heard any specifics. Maybe some other SWA folks have.

 

I realize you guys have been in negotiations for several years..... but if the dates are right... this new agreement ( albeit retro active for money ) only goes another 2 years or so.... wonder who drove the short duration...company or union....

 

A five year contract is not all that short, I would call that average. No numbers have been leaked yet. The "no domestic codeshare" clause we keep hearing about can have soooo many loopholes in it. We'd have to see ALL the fine print before we vote on it. If this contract allows for the codeshare we already announced with WestJet and Volaris, this pilot will be voting a big fat NO. Anywhere a 737 can fly... SWA pilots should be flying it PERIOD.

 

AMEN.....We are rapidly improving the career progression for Canadian & Mexican pilots while we have NO upgrades, NO new hires & ALL of us have already taken a 5-10% pay cut due to schedule cutbacks.

If this contract does not include provisions to take care of FO's who will now sit more than a decade to upgrade, you can add another big, fat NO!!!! on this contract!

 

Okay I will bite! What would YOU like to see in this TA? Perhaps the 5-10% schedule reduction saved us from furloughing anyone. Since YOU believe your upgrade has been delayed, what provisions would address the obvious wrong that has damaged YOUR career advancement?

BTW I totally agree with Murano that if a 737 can be used SWA should be flying it. Plain and simple, no discussion, period!

Back on topic. The TA will have to be reviewed in it's entirety. I for one will not engage in the "I will vote no" and the "If it doesn't address MY needs" arguments until I see the whole thing. If one issue is the "make or break" factor for you than vote accordingly. Right now the codeshare is MY greatest concern and anymore "agreements" will make this Oscar very unhappy.

I will also (as I have said in the past) take a trip reduction (or scheduling reduction) to keep from furloughing someone!

 

I don't think ALPA lawyers are the problem, really. They just do the best with what they're given. Would higher-priced lawyers help? Maybe, but probably not.

Some of the scope sections for majors are quite honestly out of control. The inherent nature of scope means that some flying is included, and some is excluded. The more crap you throw on there, the more convoluted and error-prone it gets. Combine that with the fact that no contract (in any industry, not just labor contracts) is air-tight and you can see how any lawyer paid to do this sort of thing will be able to drive a Mack truck through the language.

I think the bigger problem is the inability of pilot groups to look into the future and predict trends. Was it really that much of a stretch to predict that Delta would try to replace narrowbody aircraft with the CRJ when it was introduced with Comair in the early 90s? Whether the pilot group or the MEC realized this or not is the issue, but unfortunately we're all stuck with the consequences.

The only airtight scope is, "All flying for XYZ Airlines must be done by XYZ pilots." But it's a little too late for that one.