There should be no whining from the Mesaba folks-they had their chance to cut a deal like Compass has.

Tim ... +1

Tim...... +2

What deal does compass have? I'm simply pointing out a compass staple job has unintended consequences that may actually make it the worse option. Instead of recapturing the flying it will likely make things worse, your MEC agrees.

You also need to get the facts about what happened during the mesaba agreement that went sour. Management's terms were unrealistic and that killed the deal.

That is great. The thing is that we the pilot group would never put CPS on the list without changing section 1. We are not that dumb. Problem is that those big RJ's are not what they hoped for.
There are two ways out of that. One is not an option for the union. We will see how this plays out.

I third Tim's resolution, so Tim +3. I think that qualifies enough from biblical days for a stoning? Or for someone to get stoned. I can't remember.

Compass is different than Mesaba and the truth is Mesaba didn't put themselves today in the position with the flow through and flow down that Compass is. I'm sure Mesaba wouldn't resist taking every single furloughed DAL pilot if we started furloughing this afternoon, would they? And if you're at Mesaba and don't like that CPZ could be stapled and/or that Delta pilots are fighting for CPZ then guess what, you should've applied between Feb 2007 to 2008 to get hired at either DAL or NWA. There were plenty of opportunities to come over.

The mission to me, this is in my tiny brains understanding of the ALPA world, is to get the union to resist allowing DCI 76 seat jets to continue to expand and perform mainline replacement flying using Delta facilities on routes formerly flown by Delta and Northwest Airlines.

I am all about grabbing CPZ, changing section 1 to discontinue new 76 seat flying outside of mainline and going from there. Its about stopping the replacement flying, its not about stapling wholly owned DCIs just cuz. Now, I do think it imparative that the issues with regionals be addressed. Issues like that they are no longer stepping stones, you're there for years and years longer than you would've been before and at stepping stone wages which further drives the economic matrix to allow replacement flying and for some reason its being allowed by mainline pilots.

CPZ is the way to change course in a positive manner, take back 76 seat jets and grab a group of pilots willing, in my belief, to be brought on at the bottom of the list and willing to take the hit if DAL furloughed tomorrow.

This is wrong information, the only pilots at XJ that were offered employment at NWA were those that were awaiting class dates prior to 9/11/01 and those who flowed up. Everyone else was ineligible due too the flow agreement, I know, my interview was canceled. Second, neither compass nor mesaba put themselves in any position with the flow. NWALPA negotiated the current Compass contract and flow, and the same was with the XJ flow. NWA management said they would not honor a flow with XJ as a result of them being a wholly owned, a grievance was filed and the XJ flow was a result. The fact that XJ can't be flushed is NWA management saving money and not us trying to keep you out of our seats.

There are pilots at compass that want the MEC's separated so they can get the mesaba flow deal.

You are right, but let me see if I can make the strategy a little more effective.

As a union we need to concentrate less on WHAT flies and focus more on WHO flies it. A perfect scope section is "all Delta flying is performed by Delta pilots." It says who flies the airplanes.

Pilots don't buy the airplanes, or decide how they are routed. We fly the airplanes. Our union's job is to bring pilots together to bargain collectively. If our scope is built on these founding principles, it will be more effective.

Yeah, we know. But that's pretty dumb given the news that no Delta guys are expected to flow down. They need to think several moves ahead.

If these guys win, it's pretty much over for Compass. They'll end up working out a seniority list with the Teamsters at Shuttle America / Republic. Then the C Series jet, or a plastic 737 will come along and remove the need for outsourcing this flying from management's perspective. Then they'll spend the rest of their lives hating ALPA for something that they, themselves, were responsible for.

"Pilots" = One pilot. And I'm not so sure he wants the mesaba flow deal.