Can we please REGULATE AVIATION once again ?
03-03-2009 | 04:25 AM
#21
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Communism had the best intentions, in theory, but clearly we can see it doesn't work.
The system NEEDS to be fixed, before it can grow.
03-03-2009 | 04:41 AM
#22
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From: FIRE ALPA
Thomas Jefferson quotes, something to ponder. Perhaps it's time we ALL relearn some of our history as it's beginning to repeat itself.......
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty, than those attending too small a degree of it.
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.
I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.
No generation has a right to contract debts greater than can be paid off during the course of its own existence.
A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose both, and deserve neither.
Every generation needs a new revolution.
And Here is one from Abe Lincoln.
If by the mere force of numbers a majority should deprive a minority of any clearly written constitutional right, it might, in a moral point of view, justify revolution.
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty, than those attending too small a degree of it.
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.
I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.
No generation has a right to contract debts greater than can be paid off during the course of its own existence.
A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose both, and deserve neither.
Every generation needs a new revolution.
And Here is one from Abe Lincoln.
If by the mere force of numbers a majority should deprive a minority of any clearly written constitutional right, it might, in a moral point of view, justify revolution.
03-03-2009 | 04:43 AM
#23
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Joined: Jan 2008
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From: 747
Not saying we're Socialists now, but with every expansion of our corrupt federal government we are closing in on a Socialistic Society that will evolve into Communism.
Communism had the best intentions, in theory, but clearly we can see it doesn't work.
The system NEEDS to be fixed, before it can grow.
Communism had the best intentions, in theory, but clearly we can see it doesn't work.
The system NEEDS to be fixed, before it can grow.
03-03-2009 | 04:58 AM
#24
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Joined: Mar 2008
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Thomas Jefferson quotes, something to ponder. Perhaps it's time we ALL relearn some of our history as it's beginning to repeat itself.......
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty, than those attending too small a degree of it.
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.
I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.
No generation has a right to contract debts greater than can be paid off during the course of its own existence.
A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose both, and deserve neither.
Every generation needs a new revolution.
And Here is one from Abe Lincoln.
If by the mere force of numbers a majority should deprive a minority of any clearly written constitutional right, it might, in a moral point of view, justify revolution.
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty, than those attending too small a degree of it.
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.
I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.
No generation has a right to contract debts greater than can be paid off during the course of its own existence.
A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose both, and deserve neither.
Every generation needs a new revolution.
And Here is one from Abe Lincoln.
If by the mere force of numbers a majority should deprive a minority of any clearly written constitutional right, it might, in a moral point of view, justify revolution.
Giving more money to the American People in hopes they will spend it and spur economic growth. Essentially we are trying to spend our way out of this problem.
We probably could learn a thing or two from our history, but what to do with what we learn?
03-03-2009 | 05:07 AM
#25
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I really don't think socialism or communism is anything to worry about, when you have an America run by CORPORATIONS. Corrupt officials, corrupt management looking after personal gain and what bonuses they can get to buy that ferrari they have been waiting for. US Carriers are unfortunately run by these people I mentioned above, there is nothing "Family" about running an airline anymore as we see in Europe, Asia. (CEOs taking paycuts to avoid Furloughs)
In an ideal world, you could probably expect that Big Industry/Corporation would be ethically run, but we don't live in that world.
America is run by Corporation, and many hard working Americans, but you can't solely blame Big Corporation.
Don't get me wrong these Dirty CEOs, Hedge Fund Managers, Speculators, Brokers, and Investment Firms are garbage, but we created the atmosphere that allowed these individuals to exploit the system. It's to our federal government to change the system so these people can't further harm our economy.
Problem is, too many government officials have been in bed with these people for a VERY long time.
Nobody likes to bite the hand that feeds them, and as long Corrupt Official weren't growing hungry for money or power, no one was going to step up and enforce the fiance sector.
03-03-2009 | 05:30 AM
#26
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On Reserve
Joined: Jul 2008
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Ok guys this is what I am talking about,
WHY AS A PILOT GROUP WE ARE WORRYING ABOUT THE PUBLIC?
1- Regulate airlines means more money for the airline it self, steady jobs for Us pilots (I don't see medical procedures getting cheaper at hospital or dental offices)
2- So Amtrak sucks in America but you know what the Amtrak employee is not getting furlough every year, is not getting a regional Amtrak train to take his job a way, no Amtrak no ride. No main line pilots to flight guess what here comes a new pilot that will fly for $ 18.00 in hour so he or she can get 1000 golden hours of pic.
3- We are waiting for the economy to pick up, For what? so we can get laid off again thats very nice.
4- WHO CARES ABOUT THE PASSENGERS DO YOU THINK PASSENGERS GET ABOUT YOU OR YOUR FAMILY AHHH GUESS WHAT NO , F...K THE PASSENGERS. WE NEED TO STAND UP FOR ONCE AND GET THIS IDEA TO THE CONGRESS SOME HOW.
WHY AS A PILOT GROUP WE ARE WORRYING ABOUT THE PUBLIC?
1- Regulate airlines means more money for the airline it self, steady jobs for Us pilots (I don't see medical procedures getting cheaper at hospital or dental offices)
2- So Amtrak sucks in America but you know what the Amtrak employee is not getting furlough every year, is not getting a regional Amtrak train to take his job a way, no Amtrak no ride. No main line pilots to flight guess what here comes a new pilot that will fly for $ 18.00 in hour so he or she can get 1000 golden hours of pic.
3- We are waiting for the economy to pick up, For what? so we can get laid off again thats very nice.
4- WHO CARES ABOUT THE PASSENGERS DO YOU THINK PASSENGERS GET ABOUT YOU OR YOUR FAMILY AHHH GUESS WHAT NO , F...K THE PASSENGERS. WE NEED TO STAND UP FOR ONCE AND GET THIS IDEA TO THE CONGRESS SOME HOW.
03-03-2009 | 05:42 AM
#27
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,142
Likes: 4
From: FIRE ALPA
Ok guys this is what I am talking about,
WHY AS A PILOT GROUP WE ARE WORRYING ABOUT THE PUBLIC?
1- Regulate airlines means more money for the airline it self, steady jobs for Us pilots (I don't see medical procedures getting cheaper at hospital or dental offices)
2- So Amtrak sucks in America but you know what the Amtrak employee is not getting furlough every year, is not getting a regional Amtrak train to take his job a way, no Amtrak no ride. No main line pilots to flight guess what here comes a new pilot that will fly for $ 18.00 in hour so he or she can get 1000 golden hours of pic.
3- We are waiting for the economy to pick up, For what? so we can get laid off again thats very nice.
4- WHO CARES ABOUT THE PASSENGERS DO YOU THINK PASSENGERS GET ABOUT YOU OR YOUR FAMILY AHHH GUESS WHAT NO , F...K THE PASSENGERS. WE NEED TO STAND UP FOR ONCE AND GET THIS IDEA TO THE CONGRESS SOME HOW.
WHY AS A PILOT GROUP WE ARE WORRYING ABOUT THE PUBLIC?
1- Regulate airlines means more money for the airline it self, steady jobs for Us pilots (I don't see medical procedures getting cheaper at hospital or dental offices)
2- So Amtrak sucks in America but you know what the Amtrak employee is not getting furlough every year, is not getting a regional Amtrak train to take his job a way, no Amtrak no ride. No main line pilots to flight guess what here comes a new pilot that will fly for $ 18.00 in hour so he or she can get 1000 golden hours of pic.
3- We are waiting for the economy to pick up, For what? so we can get laid off again thats very nice.
4- WHO CARES ABOUT THE PASSENGERS DO YOU THINK PASSENGERS GET ABOUT YOU OR YOUR FAMILY AHHH GUESS WHAT NO , F...K THE PASSENGERS. WE NEED TO STAND UP FOR ONCE AND GET THIS IDEA TO THE CONGRESS SOME HOW.
Then see the last quote from Jefferson I posted, If you are so inclined, have at it...
03-03-2009 | 05:43 AM
#28
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From: Livin' the dream
Hi Chiledaire
Chiledeaire,
Good initial post question, however...
Not that I'm casting doubts on the idea that you are a pilot- but what is your background if you don't mind me asking?
I notice you only have two posts to your credit, and sometimes I get rather worried a little bit about the concept of "information warfare", ya know?
Anyway, would like to hear your background, just to make sure you're not some innocent paid lackey chained to a computer somewhere trying to further wreck my nation's economy and all.
Cheers,
K.T.
Good initial post question, however...
Not that I'm casting doubts on the idea that you are a pilot- but what is your background if you don't mind me asking?
I notice you only have two posts to your credit, and sometimes I get rather worried a little bit about the concept of "information warfare", ya know?
Anyway, would like to hear your background, just to make sure you're not some innocent paid lackey chained to a computer somewhere trying to further wreck my nation's economy and all.
Cheers,
K.T.
03-03-2009 | 05:43 AM
#29
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The government runs nothing efficiently? You have to be kidding me. Why not privatize the police? Why not the fire department too? Isn't our military technically the government? Why not let the market decide what is an acceptable price for public protection. You're telling me NASA is an ad-hoc operation?
The idea that the market handles EVERYTHING better is ludicrous at best. Yes, generally, businesses are more efficient than the government. Yes, there are governmental institutions that are corrupt and inept. But, can you honestly watch CNN/FOX/MSNBC and truthfully believe that the economic models of countless banks, the big 3 automakers, and others have been operating on sound priniciples?
Now, I'm no governmental scholar, but I hardly think having rules constitutes socialism. I'm inclined to agree that regulation such as it was pre-1978 isn't good for the public or the industry. I do think, however, that a structured system of some sort operated under the principles of free enterprise with an abundance of competition is advantageous in comparison to the wild-west-last-man-standing mentality. Clearly, that has "been time and time again proven to run nothing efficiently"
The idea that the market handles EVERYTHING better is ludicrous at best. Yes, generally, businesses are more efficient than the government. Yes, there are governmental institutions that are corrupt and inept. But, can you honestly watch CNN/FOX/MSNBC and truthfully believe that the economic models of countless banks, the big 3 automakers, and others have been operating on sound priniciples?
Now, I'm no governmental scholar, but I hardly think having rules constitutes socialism. I'm inclined to agree that regulation such as it was pre-1978 isn't good for the public or the industry. I do think, however, that a structured system of some sort operated under the principles of free enterprise with an abundance of competition is advantageous in comparison to the wild-west-last-man-standing mentality. Clearly, that has "been time and time again proven to run nothing efficiently"
I agree with all of your points except the above one mentioned. I am not convinced that the gov't regulation is the same as the gov't running it. The public now has bad service from 100 different airlines. Before they had descent service from 10 airlines...They're paying for it either way.
Last edited by reCALcitrant; 03-03-2009 at 05:54 AM.
03-03-2009 | 05:49 AM
#30
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
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From: 767er Captain
I've thought about this before, and I could be wrong, (it's happened once or twice), but isn't a big part of the problem that airline A won't raise it's rates because if they did then airline B would still be charging a lower rate, claiming all the flying public for itself, and Airline A would soon be in a worse positon than it is now? It seems that the solution to this would be reregulation. Certain carriers fly to certain destinations and that's it. If you want to go to LAX, you take airline A. If you want to fly to MIA, you can take airline B. If you don't like what they're charging, you can go to Avis. Wasn't deregulation what opened the door for the regionals to fly mainline routes in the first place? I'm a furloughed Comair guy and I can see that. The "golden age of flying" we keep hearing about took place largely during regulation, didn't it? It's been made abundantly clear that the airline industry is not able or willing to pass it's expenses on to the public like almost every other industry does (the price of gas goes up, milk costs more). Instead, they pass the effects of their cost on to the employees: pilots, flight attendants, ramp/gate agents, etc. That's no way to run a business. I could be wrong. If I am please correct me. I don't want to be wandering around without getting my story straight.
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