............................................ edited for poor taste, vulgarity and general nastiness.

I should just stick to "I fart in your general direction."

Bar, thanks for all of your posts and help on improving things on both sides of the lists. Hope you don't go, I understand though. Just wait and see if there are COLAs or whatever DAL might call them before you pull that trigger.

I do not think he will. He is one person that absolutely loves to fly airplanes. Just got to keep him in ATL.....

I'm still trying to digest the info you just threw down on page 8.

...
ACL, whats the ligit time table for the changes in the DCI contracts and when that comes what would it look like?

Is price the biggest hinderance to ordering more 330s and 320s or is there something else with Boeing that makes ordering more Airbuses difficult? Seems like the 319 would be better than a 100 seater.

Would 9s come to ATL or to any new base or is training and opening a base woth it if its life could be relatively limited?

Heyas ACL,

As always, thanks for your optimism....

Nu

First none of that is new, all old info, just restating it. People sometimes need to look at the big picture. Long term thinking is what is needed to reduce peoples pulses and heat pressure here.
There are some DCI contract that come due in the next 28 months or so, after that a couple of years than two a few years after that. ASA will be here for a long time as they have 17 years left on theirs. Fact is DCI will be around for a long time, it just will not be in its current way. Loosen scope and all bets are off. They may just try it again, as it is too big of an apple not to bite.

Airbus actually makes a really good offer. The jets would come cheap. As I understand it DAL wants to make sure that Boeing as the opportunity to put its best foot forward before forever altering our relationship with them. I know, you know what I mean.
The 319/20/21 is a great jet for what it does, but if the price is right I am sure DAL would love to make the 73N work for the next 10 years until the next gen stuff starts to come on-line.
Lots of options, some are decided but many are not.
It is my understanding that ATL will probably base every type of jet DAL will have. The 9's are coming and I am sure there will have a base here. (fact for today, but maybe not tomorrow ;) )

Reality can bite, but as with everything there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Fact is we have to have jets and big jets at that to make this whole "World's Largest Airline" work.
Worst case, look at the retirements, I guess they could retire jets that quick, but there would be no airline left.

I can tell you these boys over there, have some very big plans. It is actually very exciting to hear about where we want to be in three, five and ten years post SOC. I actually have fairly good faith that if there is team that can make these plans come to fruition, this is the team.

SWA may just greenmail Delta. ALK isn't exactly cheap.

deleted...

Why do you think it's important? :confused: As an outsider, it doesn't mean anything to you anyway.

There it is fellas... the carrot for the stick. When/IF we ever get to Section 6, this will about be the time frame. Management's tactic will be predictable. "Well guys, if you want these shiny new jets, what will you be willing to give up in order to get 'em?" You heard it here first.... :mad:

I hear ya. Never give up anything for a management promise of new jets. I'll fly DC-3s if it pays DC-9 rates. Don't need shiney new jets...just need a shiney new paycheck. If management wants the new jets, they can buy them with their money, not mine:cool:

And that my friend is why both sides are maintaining assessments for dispute resolution. Are the 777s replacements for 744 (they would go to FNWA pilots) or augments (they would go to FDAL pilots).

At NWA/REP we had the same challenge to the A-320. Were they replacements for the B-727s (ratio'd between NWA and REP pilots) or new (1:1) Ended up that they were new and not replacements. Seen any B-727s lately:)

At any rate wording on the parking of protected seats and the replacement aircraft will be very important.......stay tuned for more fun and games

That's funny...in my case as a NW 87 hire I get to pick lint off the shoulders of a DAL 90 hire:D

I really can't figure out why these guys can't figure out how to run North-South on the West Coast. The one real growth opportunity area in this merger gets given to Alaska while we get the incredible shrinking airline.

I belive that they are already prepping the lawsuits for these aircraft.

Explain please. :confused:

He means if the 747 goes away and a 777-300 conspicuously shows up on the ramp with Delta South pilots being protected on that equipment.

They are waiting until after SOC so "one side does not have to absorb all the displacements" as they say.

I think there is a good chance all this will happen without litigation, but they are getting prepared just in case.

Just think of Alaska as a Delta Connection Carrier - it makes the situation come into focus a little clearer.

I like what I know about their new contract. Good for them! It will be interesting to see what their improved merger and fragmentation language means.

At least I like what they bring to the table of we do merge with them.

There will be displacements if/when they pull down the Intl categories...but there won't be as much base movement as everyone is worried about until AEs with openings come out. I don't think it will be as bad all at once. Take a look at basing 2 years after SOC and I believe it will look very different than it does now

Acl
 

Back in 1993 my former employer was looking at a big order of 767's....along comes Airbus with an incredibly sweet deal with ultra low financing on A300-600's.

The bait and switch worked, but around a year later reality hit when the price and availability became apparent. Airbus took us to the woodshed, proving once again that the devil really is in the details.

Regards......

I agree. Besides, and correct me if I'm wrong, but there can't be a whole lot of movement between bases and equipment after SOC unless there are openings. AEs, of course, are one thing; mass movement without them is another. I remain "cautiously optimistic" as I continue to look at this merger from a strategic perspective.

88 MSP category = openings
88 DTW category = openings
DC9 ATL category = openings
A320 ATL category = openings

you get the picture. I think after SOC and the displacements we're going to see lots of metal moved around which will lead to AE's for the new categories. I think we're going to see movement that would rival that of a 70 year old FA with a case of Fiber One bars.

Hope Im wrong.

deleted.....

True 'nuff. But I bet we also see a large percentage of guys staying in their domicile and swapping equipment, ie, ATL 88 for ATL 320 or 9; MSP 9 for MSP 88, etc. QOL, all other things being remotely equal, always wins out. I don't think a lot of guys are going to commute for the same or similar pay scale. I think we'll see a mass exodus from DTW but there's going to be a lot of DAL guys that want to escape from NYC. That will be the biggest movement. I don't see MSP guys commuting to LAX, or ATL guys falling over themselves to get to SEA. Could be wrong, but that just sounds stupid to me.

The 330/320/319 has worked very well for NWA...good reliability, lift and fuel burn....

Also they are looking to put:
765 in JFK
7ER in SEA
330 in ATL
320 in SLC and CVG
maybe a 7ER base in DTW or MSP
some jets in LAX
Possible pull down of 767 cat in other bases.

Point is that as we surplus bid certain areas it allows all of those pilots to go where they want. Word is two years of AE's to get this sucker the way they want it.

That A330... does it give an aural count down in inches when it comes into land? I keep seeing guys softly touch the back two tires on the truck and then the truck slowly drifts down. Is it like, 3 inches, 2.5 inches, 2 inches, 1.8 inches, 1.6 inches... kind of fun to watch. It'd be one thing if it were just one landing, but I've seen several come in back to back in DTW and do it all the same. So whats that old saying, if a plane makes a bad landing the pilot sucks and if it makes a great landing then that plane is awesome.

One problem with this Buzz is that from what I have heard a majority of Northwest guys/gals are commuters already. That being the case they will follow shorter commutes to closer bases, bigger airplanes/paychecks.

There will be many junior Delta pilots displaced and commuting out of their hubs. Wouldn't that be in millimeters?

I wouldn't say the majority of FNWA pilots are commuters, but rather a large percentage of DTW pilots commute. MSP, MEM, and SEA bases are mostly non-commuters....... So will guys chase planes? Some will others will bid in their base. I think DTW is a lot like NYC, guys are there but would rather be somewhere else it's just that a specific base works best for commuting.

How difficult is commuting to DTW? Anyone do the ATL-DTW leg currently?

Wouldn't the fNWA 757 base in DTW or MSP be called a 7ER base after SOC anyway? As I understand it, those 757 pilots already fly some over-water legs (DTW-AMS, DTW-FRA, SEA/LAX/SFO-HNL and in Asia) so they are internationally qualified.

BB,

This is why I wish we had FNWA commuter policy. Commuting to work is just not a problem with it....... Have a backup flight in NWA/DAL and they will put you on with a positive space seat, no question and no missed $$. Hopefully we can get the policy back as it is great for all of us.

Agreed.... every time I had the opportunity to talk, or write, my Rep during the JPWA I asked for PS commuting (pie in the sky), or at least the call in honest policy of FNWA. When I saw that we lost that policy, as well as failed to fix section 1, my vote was cast against.

You are correct, even we die hard non commuters need to push for a workable program given the amount of movement anticipated.

The number of line checks is set to increase to ensure compliance with upcoming ops changes. With the current system a guy could reserve a JS, then still get bumped by a LCA on short notice, and the next few flights between hub cities be on offline RJ's.

You get 3 separate landings on the 330, aft/main trucks and nose...no wing low or it really gets ugly and remember its not bank angle, but rather roll rate...if the pilot compensates for the gust, you get into a PIO. :)

With the FNWA jump seat policy (no preference whether you are going to work or not...10 1/2 days in advance, use of computer booking and instructors going to work on positive space) I think DTW only had 6 call in honest must rides for all of last year. Its works.

DAL acquired (IIRC) 14 Airbus A-310-300's and 7 A-310-200's when they purchased some of Pan Am's operation in 1991. After that DAL leased several (I don't remember how many) new A-310's from Airbus under very good terms. (They also traded the -200's to FedEx for 727 hush-kits.)

When Delta decided to return those aircraft Airbus sued Delta. As I recall, as parts on those aircraft needed replacement, Delta used parts that they had on hand (which they had acquired from Pan Am). Those parts were manufactured before the leased A-310's and Airbus refused to accept the return of those aircraft with older parts.

Those airframes sat outside the jetbase in ATL for many months.

While I'm sure that left a very sour impression in DAL managements mind, and I doubt that team would buy an Airbus product, that management team is now gone.

I am betting more than 6 call in honests for last year..... Heck I used it 3 times and I am not trying to commute between popular city pairs.

On another note with this policy you don't need to worry about JS except for going home. This affords more non-revs to used it which in turns again helps out the entire pilot group!

Heyas Buck,

ATL-DTW is a tough one because of a relatively high number of ex-Republic guys. It has been made extra tough lately in the short term because ATL-DTW and ATL-MSP is now almost exclusively DAL metal.

DFW, SEA, LAX, PHX, FLL/MIA/PBI, TPA, MCO are all fairly challenging, plus all those mid-sized places that have gone all RJ in the last few years (AUS, PNS, etc).

Nu

Ex-Republic guys in ATL? How many? I heard 340, then 70. I've heard a lot are 330 drivers. Do you know Nu?