I am not sure how many are 330 drivers, but last year when I was a 320 pilot I flew with quite a few guys from the ATL area.

Correct, but I was referring to more than just the 757. Like the ER.
As for their 757 fleet I am sure some it will be flown domestically. I know DAL is pushing for an all ER fleet type, so this may as good of a time as any.

All of the FNWA 75 drivers are designated as ER, I think you will find the international designation only going away soon.

Correct. DAL has been pushing to make the ER and the 767 categories one. I know the plan was for it to happen in about three years a year and a half ago, so that jives with what the plan was. It just involves a lot of training.

That's going to make reserve manning and IROPs recovery kinda "different" isn't it? Delta is more careful about Whitlow and crew rest than other airlines I've flown for (which is nice).

ER short call is tough on commuters.

With the 767 going to every continent except Antartica, them's going to be some giant sized Jepps for a reserve pilot who can't be sure where he's going.

A ship set, or better yet, electronic versions, would be nice.

Amen to that! For all equipment categories. How much money are we throwing down the Jepp waste basket twice a month? Seems pretty antiquated to me. And, here's a thought, where are we still finding and buying dot matrix printers?? Sheesh.

Electronic is still ways off, need a company platform to support the technology...last time I checked the class 2 efb was 40,000 grand for a retrofit...think it was per aircraft.

I don't think this is correct. I have talked with lots of flight ops personal and none have said this is the companies intent. If they really wanted this they would certainly have asked for it in the two major concessionary contracts or the joint contract completed last spring.
The only reason they converted CVG to the ER was to avoid a massive amount of training that would have been generated had they closed the domestic category outright. The ER category in CVG is viewed as temporary at best. They still staffed it as a domestic not international base for FO's. There are no gains for the company in combining them because the categories are all large enough that reserve and other requirements do not come down. In fact they would end up paying a lot more credit and dropped trips because a joint category can be manipulated by pilots to generate paid trip drops.

Yeah, but how much are yearly Jepp revisions for 12,000 pilots vs the cost of retrofit for the 700+ airplanes we have?

Fedex switched to EFB and I can't imagine they like throwing money out the door.

I agree. Plus, the paper revisions are a recurring expense. Going EFB is an up front cost, true, but think of the savings in future years. Plus, $40K per jet is a drop in the bucket over the long haul.

Well sailing, that is what the guys were talking about a year ago. It is not front burner now with the merger.

As for the Jepps, most airlines pay a flat fee for their jeps. If we had ship sets and that was it, it would be the same fee. The previous carrier I worked for had the same deal. The cost is based on the amount of pilots the carrier has.

Yeah ACL. But that cost just went up by 4000+ pilotos. Does it justify not making a large up front expense and enjoying the fruits later? Every time I stick my old pages into a garbage bag (of course I don't do it in flight ;)) I think about the costs to the company. Surely, in 2009, there has to be a better way?

Jepps vs EFB vs LIDO
 

Guys,

I was a purple guy when we started the change to EFB. LIDO provided a superior EFB product to Jepp in our opinion. The data base was more reliable and the graphics were far better in definition.

We were required by our POI to use the LIDO paper product for a year using fully maintained shipsets prior to implementing EFB....paperless cockpit.

Real estate can be a challenge to mount the EFB and we had to overcome the resistance to change, but the paper charts were color coded, larger, and very legible.

Cost for shipsets was cheaper than individual Jepp issues, never had to carry, or update a Jepp, and workman's comp claims for back injuries virtually disappeared.

I have zero juice at Delta, but if any of you movers and shakers would like more info, send me a PM.

Regards.....FD

As a former ER guy, I'd love to see an EFB. I was tired of having high altitude charts for the entire world, all 3" of them and both domestic and international charts in my poor bursting kit.

However, I think on the ER I'd preferred to see all of the aircraft equipped with GPS so I wouldn't have to be on a track in a 75ER with 0 offset and watch everyone pass a mile or so off our left side. I got passed a lot off my left with 0 offset. Something isn't right there. And every damn one of those planes should have satcom. Given the company won't do that, and I'm assuming it hasn't been done in the last few months, I doubt EFBs are of any concern.

Also, at Continental Express I know they also looked into it and found out that Jepp was not going to lower the price at all, EFB or paper was the same cost except for the fact you have to dump the money into the equipment so really your costs just go up enormously, not down. Just as ACL said. And FAA certification is a pain in the rear too. But oddly, I have seen the FAA allow operations to have a printer in the airplane, didn't even have to be in the cabin, and you just print the charts you need. If you need something else, like on a divert, you just go print those in the back of the plane. Idiotic? Yes. FAA approved? Yes. I think we should do that, and put the printer on the 88 and 9 by the gear periscope.

Also, NWA pilots weren't flying around without charts pre merger, they had charts too. The cost in Jepps for old Delta to new Delta should be about the same.

Actually, dot matrix printers are very cost efficient. You can use REALLY, REALLY cheap paper (IE newsprint) in them (which would typically jam a laser printer), they use a $0.49 ribbon instead of a $49.95 toner cartridge.

Lots of places still have a use for DM,and that's why they're still produced. Impact printers are the only ones that can do multi-part forms.

Newer isn't always better.

Nu

Well I think that NWA paid for Jepps too! There is a lot more to it than meets the eye. Some day, but not some day soon.

I agree there has to be a better, way, but this way the responsibility is on you and not the company.

Uh......Lido ( Lufthansa )......anyone?.......anyone?.....Buehler???

Sometimes not being on the exact same line as another airplane (even if due to nav inaccuracy) can be a blessing. Big Sky theory kind of went away with GPS on the tracks. I never really enjoy going beak to beak with a 747 over the middle of the ocean - seems silly. Thousands of miles of oceanic airspace and here we are, fuselages aligned exactly in the horizontal, and separated vertically by a 1000 feet. But at least, without anyone watching on radar, we have a trusty HF radio to confirm the altitude clearance. What could possibly go wrong?