DAL bases and equipment
04-14-2009 | 08:55 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,642
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From: right for a long, long time
It fluctuates, but overall, a NWA guy is slotted in with a DAL guy hired a year to a year and a half later. There are some pockets the other way...a bud of mine was a late 95 hire and got slotted before 91 DAL hires, and some of the guys hired in late 2000/01 got slammed behind 07 DAL hires.
Nu
Nu
Grant123,
The following is what was published by the merger committee to explain the methodology after the arbitration ran its full course. In the arbitration panel's opinion it attempts to provide the benefit of upcoming retirements for FNWA pilots and also makes every effort to preserve a pilot's "bidding ability"(aka relative seniority) from pre-merger list and post-merger list. There are areas of the seniority list that fluctuate considerably in Date of Hire relativity due to the fact that DAL and NWA did not hire at the same time or at the same rate over the last 25 years.
Constructing the Integrated System Seniority List
The ISSL has been constructed from the pre-merger Delta and pre-merger Northwest pilot seniority lists in effect on November 1, 2008, as provided to the Panel by the parties, in the manner set forth below. The relative position of each pilot on the pre-merger lists remained unchanged on the ISSL.
1. All pilots on long-term sick leave (12 months or longer) were removed from the premerger lists.
2. The 274 oldest Northwest pilots were removed from the pre-merger list.
3. The first 3045 positions on the ISSL were filled with the first 1961 Delta pilots and 1084 Northwest pilots on the pre-merger lists in a ratio of 1961:1084 beginning with a Delta pilot.
4. The next 2433 positions on the ISSL were filled with the next 1313 Delta pilots and 1120 Northwest pilots on the pre-merger lists in a ratio of 1313:1120 beginning with a Delta pilot.
5. The next 3932 positions on the ISSL were filled with the next 2580 Delta pilots and 1352 Northwest pilots on the pre-merger lists in a ratio of 2580:1352 beginning with a Delta pilot.
6. The ISSL was completed with Delta and Northwest pilots remaining on the pre-merger lists in a ratio of 1314:957 Delta to Northwest pilots beginning with a Delta pilot until both pre-merger lists are exhausted subject to paragraph 7, below.
7. All pilots with dates of hire after April 14, 2008, were placed at the bottom of the ISSL in order of date of hire.
8. The Northwest pilots pulled in paragraph 2. were inserted directly above the next junior Northwest pilot.
9. The pilots on long-term sick leave pulled in paragraph 1. were inserted directly above the next junior pilot on his/her respective pre-merger list.
The ISSL has been constructed from the pre-merger Delta and pre-merger Northwest pilot seniority lists in effect on November 1, 2008, as provided to the Panel by the parties, in the manner set forth below. The relative position of each pilot on the pre-merger lists remained unchanged on the ISSL.
1. All pilots on long-term sick leave (12 months or longer) were removed from the premerger lists.
2. The 274 oldest Northwest pilots were removed from the pre-merger list.
3. The first 3045 positions on the ISSL were filled with the first 1961 Delta pilots and 1084 Northwest pilots on the pre-merger lists in a ratio of 1961:1084 beginning with a Delta pilot.
4. The next 2433 positions on the ISSL were filled with the next 1313 Delta pilots and 1120 Northwest pilots on the pre-merger lists in a ratio of 1313:1120 beginning with a Delta pilot.
5. The next 3932 positions on the ISSL were filled with the next 2580 Delta pilots and 1352 Northwest pilots on the pre-merger lists in a ratio of 2580:1352 beginning with a Delta pilot.
6. The ISSL was completed with Delta and Northwest pilots remaining on the pre-merger lists in a ratio of 1314:957 Delta to Northwest pilots beginning with a Delta pilot until both pre-merger lists are exhausted subject to paragraph 7, below.
7. All pilots with dates of hire after April 14, 2008, were placed at the bottom of the ISSL in order of date of hire.
8. The Northwest pilots pulled in paragraph 2. were inserted directly above the next junior Northwest pilot.
9. The pilots on long-term sick leave pulled in paragraph 1. were inserted directly above the next junior pilot on his/her respective pre-merger list.
04-14-2009 | 08:58 AM
#52
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
No sense stirring the pudding. Hence I'm deleting this post and looking forward to the day when I wish all of you the best at Delta.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 04-14-2009 at 09:24 AM.
04-14-2009 | 10:24 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,099
Likes: 86
There were 61 words in that post...which was not to your liking?
Giving the guy the methodology tells him nothing. Fact of the matter is that there was some variation in the slotting. Some made out, some didn't and some were about par....on day one.
Fact is that, yes, some did very well, such as my friend who went in front of DAL pilots hired 4 years earlier. Some did considerably worse, such as friends who were hired in 01, that wound up behind 2007 DAL hires. And yes, the group of DAL guys in 08 that got stapled to the bottom.
My point was that ON AVERAGE, the typical NWA guy is paired with a DAL guy hired a year to a year and half after him.
It is what it is...people need to stop being uncomfortable around it.
Nu
Giving the guy the methodology tells him nothing. Fact of the matter is that there was some variation in the slotting. Some made out, some didn't and some were about par....on day one.
Fact is that, yes, some did very well, such as my friend who went in front of DAL pilots hired 4 years earlier. Some did considerably worse, such as friends who were hired in 01, that wound up behind 2007 DAL hires. And yes, the group of DAL guys in 08 that got stapled to the bottom.
My point was that ON AVERAGE, the typical NWA guy is paired with a DAL guy hired a year to a year and half after him.
It is what it is...people need to stop being uncomfortable around it.
Nu
04-14-2009 | 10:28 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 236
Likes: 0
From: A330 capt
Now, if you haven't been flying something out of seniority then...nevermind...it was just a wild guess on my part.
Nu's choice of words might seem, to a few slightly curious, -to imply that it is OK for a 91' hire to be placed behind a 95' hire, but "not so OK" for a 01' hire to be "slammed behind" a 07' hire......Nu managed to cherry-pick the 91' vs. 95' controversy, as that is to my knowledge the only place on the whole seniority list where a significant block of people (150-200?) are inverted in seniority DOH in favor of NW. (Correct me if I am wrong, Nu.) I would say the average DOH difference is more like 2-3 years overall.
And Bucking, you are right, this is a hypersensitive 900 lb. gorilla, and as long as he is behind bars (or we are behind bars) ...it is hard to resist teasing him every once in a while...
04-14-2009 | 10:44 AM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 236
Likes: 0
From: A330 capt
04-14-2009 | 12:18 PM
#58
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
If, in your case, you were enjoying flying the ER or dom. 767 or something better than M88B as a relative new hire, then you were flying it "out of seniority order" and after the merger guess what?...no windfalls here, and no bad deals either...neutral...you are still flying something "out of seniority order"....only now you'll have hundreds of DC9 and A320 B's descending out of the blizzards of the frozen north who are hungrier than bi't'ch wolves at whelping time for the genteel life of a landed Southern Gentleman....sipping mint juleps on the front verandah, and occassionally dropping in to Paris or London for some shopping...
Now, if you haven't been flying something out of seniority then...nevermind...it was just a wild guess on my part.
Nu's choice of words might seem, to a few slightly curious, -to imply that it is OK for a 91' hire to be placed behind a 95' hire, but "not so OK" for a 01' hire to be "slammed behind" a 07' hire....
And Bucking, you are right, this is a hypersensitive 900 lb. gorilla, and as long as he is behind bars (or we are behind bars) ...it is hard to resist teasing him every once in a while...
Now, if you haven't been flying something out of seniority then...nevermind...it was just a wild guess on my part.
Nu's choice of words might seem, to a few slightly curious, -to imply that it is OK for a 91' hire to be placed behind a 95' hire, but "not so OK" for a 01' hire to be "slammed behind" a 07' hire....
And Bucking, you are right, this is a hypersensitive 900 lb. gorilla, and as long as he is behind bars (or we are behind bars) ...it is hard to resist teasing him every once in a while...
Almost made me loose my Dudeness.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 04-14-2009 at 12:54 PM.
04-14-2009 | 01:40 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 236
Likes: 0
From: A330 capt
Sorry Bucking, not trying to make you lose your Dudeness. I respect the institution of Dudedness. And through all of my undudeifferous remarks I'm really trying to say, as Nu says it so well...."some got a good deal, some got a bad deal"....but only "on paper" so far. There is a whole lot of dust that is going to have to settle before those good deals and bad deals are actualized...no use crying over spilt eggs until youv'e counted the hatched chickens that have passed under the bridge.
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