Be careful !

Phallocranial boy would likely either explode or walk into the nearest mall with an AK-47 and swan dive onto the front page of tomorrows USA Today, because someone told him they saw an Eagle pilot in there.

Don't forget, you're not dealing with an emotionally stable mind with him and ANYTHING is possible.

:eek:

EGL flyer....

Keeping this brief and short winded.....I can appreciate you ideas, thoughts, and opinion on how the wicked "triangle" should work....but again, it's just that, an unrealistic pipe dream.

When your willing to sell out the bottom 50% of your own seniority list, I can see that the APA guys/gals would have warm-fuzzies in having someone like you running amuck in their own ranks. I find it VERY hard for your theory to hold water in the fact that the majority of the bottom 50% (1000+ pilots) subscribe to your plan....even if there are a half a dozen proponets posted on APC.

If you want to know anything about "selling out" people in the past, just ask your senior buddies at EGL about the Man, Myth, and Legend - Homer Pugh's "16 years mistake". Having witnessed this first hand, learn from the past mistakes and don't be the next "Homer" in selling out your colleagues.

I still don't understand your logic as to why AMR would every agree to such a marriage in a common seniority list....why would they do that when the have a "Whip Saw" already in place??? After all it's all the Vouge in todays managment tactics. In management's eyes...."work good, work long time".

I will leave you with this, just remember "history often repeats itself". In the past, APA and EGL ALPA went through many meetings/talks/interpreted previously written agreements involving something called a "Flow Through v Flow Back"....how did that work for you?? 126ish flowed over to AA's mainline, and something along the lines of 700ish AA furloughs flowed back to occupy RJ CA seats. History has shown that there will always be some form of separation in the two pilot groups, AMR mgt has already proven that.

To keep in the concentration of the thread, Best luck to the APA Guys/Gals and your current negotiations....give management heck and get what the industry deserves on all levels.

Actually the last time it was staple and DOH for furlough only. Fences except for some CRJ 700 captain seats. The balking point was new hire placement.

It isn't me that is the problem as one pilot cannot "sell out" all the others. Many of these junior pilots have said they'd sacrifice their jobs for a shot at the big leagues. The Eagle ALPA MEC individual that you mention didn't do that all himself (an erronous assumption). He had plenty of help from national, management and other pilots and as someone who doesn't have to ask anyone about the past because he went thru it all and understands IT ALL (more then you), I know that you can be screwed over as easily as sold out. Perhaps you can talk to some of your buddies at the APA, on that very subject.........you know.........screwing people over.

B scale,TWA, junior pilot sacrifical lambs, the attempt to stiff many flowthru's out of their transfer rights, etc., the APA are THE source on "screwing over".............they wrote the book.

Your right though, the subject itself is also complete fodder in and of itself (some STILL cannot accept this) as AMR WILL NEVER accept any joining of AA and Eagle, but I thought I'd play devil's advocate in showing those young, hopeful and clueless how easy it could be to realize your dream, but be horrified at the results.

It was a "Leave it to Beaver" fantasy (a fact you apparently didn't pick up on) that will NEVER happen. The only people who think it will is the APA, a certain segment of AA pilots and a good deal of wide-eyed young Eagle F/O's so new to the industry, they never been thru ANY contractual amandement experience and are still trying to master the ability to make a decent night visual approach in a turbojet powered aircraft.

In time these new young pilots WILL master that maneauver and they WILL learn the realities of this industry, management tactics and current strengths and the psychotic, dysfunctional and symbiotic relationship of AMR, AA and Eagle.

The pie eyed fantasy of one big happy family here is just that...................fantasy.

ef,
You're using the word NEVER too much.
7576

Perhaps you are correct.

From here on out, I'll limit its use to the only area it will be certain to apply to.....................that is the merging of AA and Eagle or the acquisition of Eagles RJ's by AA and/or the APA.

That will NEVER happen, but aside from that.............well, who knows ?

Great...now I've to hope that I can "screw over" the next addition to the AA seniority list as was done to me upon my arrival.

Sorry, but I'm not pulling for AA merging with anything more than 49% of the next carrier it buys.

Hey, APA--try this..."The Company shall not acquire in whole or in part any other certificated carrier's pilots while AA pilots are on furlough. Additionally, no more than 49% of the acquired carrier's operations can be merged into the AA seniority list." Nah, too good to be true....

X

16 years ago I heard alot of people say that all the 4Eagles would never be merged... well, the 4 diffrent airline unions were merged. Not saying that its gonna happen, actually Id be surprised if it did, but ... well you know the saying, " Never say never."

What AMR really wants is to be rid of Eagle, not combine anything. There is no way on God's green earth that AMR would merge the company's voluntarily. Right now, AE is a dying duck with obsolete 37-50 seat money holes and only 25 70-seat narrow bodies. And if you count the 22 70 seaters given to the company (via the secret "verbal" deal with Bombardier) by a compliant arbitrator, 47 potentially. That's compared to I think about 150 that Delta has now after they've turned Delta ALPA a company union.

What AE should be doing is flying fast efficient Q400s on short-medium range feeder routes instead of very high cost per seat mile small jets.

What they really want is the flexibility to outsource small jet and narrow body flying (70+ seaters) as they see fit. What they want is Delta plus and a complete surrender of scope by the APA.

'In order to keep top talent we must pay them bonuses'.
Too bad that thinking does not apply to the pilot group.
Just my .01 cent
Fred