Dallas ATC
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: R U Serious?
Posts: 260
I like DFW more than ORD, LGA can move traffic, but DCA now those are controllers who can push tin.
I also enjoy LAX, simple and straight forward. DEN I think is still doing parallel arrival streams....not bad in VFR in DEN but when nasty icing w/turb no fun!
I also enjoy LAX, simple and straight forward. DEN I think is still doing parallel arrival streams....not bad in VFR in DEN but when nasty icing w/turb no fun!
#12
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
I quote:
In my case, we flew the Departure we were cleared for and were later accused of a navigational deviation. The tapes cleared us and nothing happened other than a couple of worrisome nights.
On climb out ATC did not say a word. It was over on Houston Center that we got the call that Dallas made the claim we had failed to follow procedure.
WASHINGTON – The Federal Aviation Administration on Thursday acknowledged badly mishandling a whistle-blower's complaints that air traffic control managers in North Texas routinely covered up errors, almost a decade after the practice began.
It was the second time this month that top FAA officials conceded serious failures in a regional office and proposed changes to address the problems. The misconduct continued for two years even after the FAA said it would address the allegations of a controller, Anne Whiteman, who was transferred because colleagues harassed her for exposing the problems.
"We failed as an organization in executing those commitments," said Hank Krakowski, chief operating officer of the FAA's air traffic organization.
The FAA briefed reporters before an independent investigation about the operational errors and treatment of Ms. Whiteman was ready to be released. But the FAA released one finding – that FAA managers misattributed 62 air-traffic control errors to pilots or called them "non-events" between 2005 and 2007.
"Needless to say, the report is disturbing," FAA Acting Administrator Robert A. Sturgell said.
Ms. Whiteman, 51, said she remains "exhausted" and "sad" after nearly a decade of battling the FAA over a culture that permitted close calls and allowed her to be intimidated and threatened by colleagues. The FAA denied her account in 2005.
"There is a strategy to everything they are doing," Ms. Whiteman said Thursday. "Last time, they 100 percent lied to the public about everything that took place."
Expressing regret
FAA officials said they deeply regretted the way whistle-blowers have been treated, though they did not directly address Ms. Whiteman's claims of personal harassment. Earlier this month, the agency conceded that two air-safety inspectors in North Texas were retaliated against for pushing investigations of Southwest Airlines.
"We're not going to stand for this," Mr. Sturgell said. "It's an issue of integrity for me."
Ms. Whiteman reported dangerous actions by controllers in 2002. In 2004, she reported her concerns to the U.S. Office of Special Counsel, which reviews the complaints of whistle-blowers.
After an investigation largely supported her allegations, the FAA committed to make changes in 2005, including more audits and supervision of the Dallas/Fort Worth Terminal Radar Approach Control (Tracon), which handles air traffic throughout North Texas. Ms. Whiteman was transferred to another position out of concern for her safety.
The FAA failed to follow through, however, and Ms. Whiteman and another whistle-blower made new complaints last year of controllers issuing faulty instructions to pilots.
"These problems exist because of a culture of complacency and cover-up in FAA," Scott Bloch, the U.S. special counsel, said Thursday.
The FAA removed the manager and deputy manager at Dallas Tracon in January and assigned them to administrative duties at another station.
Mr. Bloch said Thursday he remains concerned about "a national trend" of suppressing controller errors and the "complicity of higher management" at the FAA.
But Mr. Krakowski said the investigation by the Department of Transportation's inspector general didn't find evidence of problems at other Tracon facilities. The investigation showed that 25 percent of errors were misclassified in Dallas; the rate was about 3 percent elsewhere, he said.
Still, Mr. Krakowski said he wasn't confident "that it can't happen elsewhere" and wanted to reduce the probability.
New measures
To that end, Mr. Krakowski announced new measures, including establishing an independent quality-assurance group to investigate possible errors and make determinations about them. FAA facility managers will no longer have the authority to determine whether an incident was caused by a controller.
The FAA also will introduce a computer system at Dallas Tracon by the end of 2008 that tells controllers how far apart to space planes.
A new vice president for air safety, a former Air Force brigadier general, is to "take a complete stem-to-stern look at the safety organization within air traffic – how it's organized, what we measure and how we hold people accountable," Mr. Krakowski said.
The National Air Traffic Controllers Association, which has fought the FAA over labor issues, blamed the errors on a shortage of controllers.
It called the staffing at Dallas Tracon, with 57 fully certified controllers, "atrocious and dangerously unsafe." The number was 99 in January 2006, according to the union.
"The FAA has no choice but to cook the books because they don't want to be seen as unsafe," said Darrell Meachum, southwest regional vice president of the National Air Traffic Controllers Association.
Ms. Whiteman said she appreciated a call from Mr. Sturgell on Thursday thanking her for her sacrifices. She still wants the agency to retract a letter written to her congressman several years ago that characterized her as "some crazy broad who was out of control," she said.
"I have been ostracized beyond belief," said Ms. Whiteman. "I have my position and title only. I'm not a part of the FAA."
Rep. Michael Burgess, R-Flower Mound, said he recalled the tone of the FAA's letter as somewhat "dismissive."
"It has taken a long time to get an answer," Mr. Burgess said of Ms. Whiteman's complaints. "But I'm grateful that she came forward and she brought the facts to light."
It was the second time this month that top FAA officials conceded serious failures in a regional office and proposed changes to address the problems. The misconduct continued for two years even after the FAA said it would address the allegations of a controller, Anne Whiteman, who was transferred because colleagues harassed her for exposing the problems.
"We failed as an organization in executing those commitments," said Hank Krakowski, chief operating officer of the FAA's air traffic organization.
The FAA briefed reporters before an independent investigation about the operational errors and treatment of Ms. Whiteman was ready to be released. But the FAA released one finding – that FAA managers misattributed 62 air-traffic control errors to pilots or called them "non-events" between 2005 and 2007.
"Needless to say, the report is disturbing," FAA Acting Administrator Robert A. Sturgell said.
Ms. Whiteman, 51, said she remains "exhausted" and "sad" after nearly a decade of battling the FAA over a culture that permitted close calls and allowed her to be intimidated and threatened by colleagues. The FAA denied her account in 2005.
"There is a strategy to everything they are doing," Ms. Whiteman said Thursday. "Last time, they 100 percent lied to the public about everything that took place."
Expressing regret
FAA officials said they deeply regretted the way whistle-blowers have been treated, though they did not directly address Ms. Whiteman's claims of personal harassment. Earlier this month, the agency conceded that two air-safety inspectors in North Texas were retaliated against for pushing investigations of Southwest Airlines.
"We're not going to stand for this," Mr. Sturgell said. "It's an issue of integrity for me."
Ms. Whiteman reported dangerous actions by controllers in 2002. In 2004, she reported her concerns to the U.S. Office of Special Counsel, which reviews the complaints of whistle-blowers.
After an investigation largely supported her allegations, the FAA committed to make changes in 2005, including more audits and supervision of the Dallas/Fort Worth Terminal Radar Approach Control (Tracon), which handles air traffic throughout North Texas. Ms. Whiteman was transferred to another position out of concern for her safety.
The FAA failed to follow through, however, and Ms. Whiteman and another whistle-blower made new complaints last year of controllers issuing faulty instructions to pilots.
"These problems exist because of a culture of complacency and cover-up in FAA," Scott Bloch, the U.S. special counsel, said Thursday.
The FAA removed the manager and deputy manager at Dallas Tracon in January and assigned them to administrative duties at another station.
Mr. Bloch said Thursday he remains concerned about "a national trend" of suppressing controller errors and the "complicity of higher management" at the FAA.
But Mr. Krakowski said the investigation by the Department of Transportation's inspector general didn't find evidence of problems at other Tracon facilities. The investigation showed that 25 percent of errors were misclassified in Dallas; the rate was about 3 percent elsewhere, he said.
Still, Mr. Krakowski said he wasn't confident "that it can't happen elsewhere" and wanted to reduce the probability.
New measures
To that end, Mr. Krakowski announced new measures, including establishing an independent quality-assurance group to investigate possible errors and make determinations about them. FAA facility managers will no longer have the authority to determine whether an incident was caused by a controller.
The FAA also will introduce a computer system at Dallas Tracon by the end of 2008 that tells controllers how far apart to space planes.
A new vice president for air safety, a former Air Force brigadier general, is to "take a complete stem-to-stern look at the safety organization within air traffic – how it's organized, what we measure and how we hold people accountable," Mr. Krakowski said.
The National Air Traffic Controllers Association, which has fought the FAA over labor issues, blamed the errors on a shortage of controllers.
It called the staffing at Dallas Tracon, with 57 fully certified controllers, "atrocious and dangerously unsafe." The number was 99 in January 2006, according to the union.
"The FAA has no choice but to cook the books because they don't want to be seen as unsafe," said Darrell Meachum, southwest regional vice president of the National Air Traffic Controllers Association.
Ms. Whiteman said she appreciated a call from Mr. Sturgell on Thursday thanking her for her sacrifices. She still wants the agency to retract a letter written to her congressman several years ago that characterized her as "some crazy broad who was out of control," she said.
"I have been ostracized beyond belief," said Ms. Whiteman. "I have my position and title only. I'm not a part of the FAA."
Rep. Michael Burgess, R-Flower Mound, said he recalled the tone of the FAA's letter as somewhat "dismissive."
"It has taken a long time to get an answer," Mr. Burgess said of Ms. Whiteman's complaints. "But I'm grateful that she came forward and she brought the facts to light."
On climb out ATC did not say a word. It was over on Houston Center that we got the call that Dallas made the claim we had failed to follow procedure.
#13
I quote: In my case, we flew the Departure we were cleared for and were later accused of a navigational deviation. The tapes cleared us and nothing happened other than a couple of worrisome nights.
On climb out ATC did not say a word. It was over on Houston Center that we got the call that Dallas made the claim we had failed to follow procedure.
On climb out ATC did not say a word. It was over on Houston Center that we got the call that Dallas made the claim we had failed to follow procedure.
Tom
#14
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: Gear yanking 76ER class worker....."one ping only. Vasili.."
Posts: 74
If you get a chance..call them up in the tower and arrange a tour of Approach Control and Tower ops. I did it on a 4 hour sit around a couple of weeks ago, very interesting.
They were very accomodating and quite frank about the friction that exists between controllers and FAA management, understaffing, new pay scales, etc.
The head of the union local was working and gave a pretty blunt assessment right in front of a supervisor that was conducting the tour.
My take; they would let you lounge and shoot the breeze up there for hours, (especially if you brought bagels); and they are not in league against us, it's just an broken system that threatens them with discipline if they don't report EVERYTHING!
They are very proud of their ATSAP program...their version of NASAP..
And they have some neat equipment.
You can get there right from the main terminal, it's nice to put faces to voices, seeing as we work with them all day/week. Nice guys/gals. Get the phone number from Ground, or Clearance Delivery.
It certainly provided more insight than some of the speculation here.
8
#15
About DTW:
You can get there right from the main terminal, it's nice to put faces to voices, seeing as we work with them all day/week. Nice guys/gals. Get the phone number from Ground, or Clearance Delivery.
It certainly provided more insight than some of the speculation here.
8
You can get there right from the main terminal, it's nice to put faces to voices, seeing as we work with them all day/week. Nice guys/gals. Get the phone number from Ground, or Clearance Delivery.
It certainly provided more insight than some of the speculation here.
8
#16
They are good in DCA, I'll grant you that ... just be prepared for the Go-around. Had it happen a few times, but it's no biggie. I have no beef with the guys at DCA. I would practice my go-around call-outs mentally on the descent so I wouldn't sound like Porky Pig on the miss. They do a great job in DCA.
#17
I have not flown domestic in some time ... matter-o-fact, I'm off today sitting here in Brooklyn studying for recurrent. I guess it's safe to say I'm having a pretty leisurely day. My mind drifted back to when I flew domestic and had to deal with any frequency in or near the 113.1 VOR ... Maverick. I'm certain some of you know it well. I flew out of DFW a long while ago, but I didn't like it then and I don't like it now. I've dealt with controllers all over as I'm certain some of you have. I'm a southern boy, but I enjoy flying in the North East ... don't know why. LGA and JFK are my two favorite airports. The controllers there are the best in the world IMO. I do not, however, have one good memory of flying into and out of DFW. Someone please tell me it was just me, and that you enjoy flying there. Flame easy, boys and for you Dallas controllers, God bless you. I don't worry about violations any where in the world, except DFW. It's sad to feel that way.
Tom
Tom
Just be careful, stay on your toes, and if you do run astray with ATC, it's much better to beg for forgiveness that to deny and evade!
BTW, I was working ground control one morning at LGA and told a USAir B737, "You're number two for runway 4, contact tower". The pilot looked around, didn't see anyone else on the taxiway and said to me, "roger ground number 2, but who are we following"? My response was, "Sir, this is LaGuardia, no one is ever number one at LaGuardia"!
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 193
The guys at LGA rock. They can also be quite chatty and funny on the radio. Now, the JFK controllers on the other hand ... APC forum rules prevent me from saying how I really feel.
YouTube - ATC@JFK - Controller hacked off (by aldo benitez)
YouTube - ATC@JFK - Jet Blue 807&857 (by aldo benitez)
YouTube - Iberia - JFK tower conversation (Stop your plane!)
YouTube - ATC@JFK - Controller hacked off (by aldo benitez)
YouTube - ATC@JFK - Jet Blue 807&857 (by aldo benitez)
YouTube - Iberia - JFK tower conversation (Stop your plane!)
#19
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: Gear yanking 76ER class worker....."one ping only. Vasili.."
Posts: 74
I wouldn't say it's speculation. I had an extensive relationship with a controller. I've visited towers, tracons, etc. I still feel the same way about DFW. I don't feel 'threatened' when operating in DTW, ORD, JFK or any place. There is a slight element of fear when entering Dallas air space. I don't have an ax to grind with DFW. I just avoided the place like the plauge.
Didn't mean to diminish anybody's experience, just trying to say it was worth the trip up to the tower to talk to the folks. I've been flying in/out of DTW for years and years and I learned a lot from their perspective.
Can't say I have much experience with DFW...
8
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: CL-65 F/O
Posts: 265
DTW was really rude to me the other day. I wanted to clarify the ramp frequency I needed to use. EXCUSE ME if I'm confused because you have 4 ground frequencies, 2 north ramp frequencies and I am not based there. Get over yourself!!!!
JFK are also terrible controllers. They might do a good job with the traffic and all that they have to deal with, but there is no reason why they have to be a-holes. I was taxiing for departure about a month ago, and ground told me to monitor his tower frequency. I was in the middle of before takeoff checks, and I wasn't really thinking about the controller, so when I flipped the switch I said "air shuttle is up with you." He was FURIOUS. He made me sit there for 15 minutes before releasing me. There was no one else on the frequency, it was dead. A-hole.
ORD and ATL are the coolest controllers. As long as you don't stop in Chicago, they could care less if you screw up. They are so nice about it, and they don't yell at you unless you do something really stupid. I really enjoy working with those folks up there. ATL are cool too. They are super controllers, they know what's up, and they do a great job. I think they are laid back too.
LGA are also great controllers. The last few times I have been up in there, they have been extreamly nice, courteous and laid back. They also run a good operation.
PIT - well, I just love them there. They are cool, laid back, and funny as all get out. I love flying into PIT just to talk to the controllers! haha!
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